https://lichess.org/v1kpVATn/white#17
In this game, both my opponent and I missed 8.@h3 and 9..@h6. I theoretically understand the theory behind why these moves are strong, and while I'm lucky my opponent didn't see it, too, I'm also curious what the consensus is for defense against these type of pawn drops from higher-rated zH players (or anyone, really).
Is it as simple as don't castle into the attack when your opponent has the opportunity and an open diagonal with the bishop? Or create bishop trades early? Limit pawn trades? Force them to drop pawns elsewhere? What else am I missing here?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might share.
https://lichess.org/v1kpVATn/white#17
In this game, both my opponent and I missed 8.@h3 and 9..@h6. I theoretically understand the theory behind why these moves are strong, and while I'm lucky my opponent didn't see it, too, I'm also curious what the consensus is for defense against these type of pawn drops from higher-rated zH players (or anyone, really).
Is it as simple as don't castle into the attack when your opponent has the opportunity and an open diagonal with the bishop? Or create bishop trades early? Limit pawn trades? Force them to drop pawns elsewhere? What else am I missing here?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might share.
Oh, crazyhouse. My limited experience is that castling is much worse in crazyhouse; every piece is in play for the whole game so restricting the king to the corner is just removing your ability to block attacks.
Oh, crazyhouse. My limited experience is that castling is much worse in crazyhouse; every piece is in play for the whole game so restricting the king to the corner is just removing your ability to block attacks.
@dnowmects said in #2:
Oh, crazyhouse. My limited experience is that castling is much worse in crazyhouse; every piece is in play for the whole game so restricting the king to the corner is just removing your ability to block attacks.
That's a good point, I basically castled into the attack with the above game but I'm curious what variables in these regards determine when it's safe to castle because clearly high rated players are castling kingside with white and winning...
https://lichess.org/BnktdvNx
@dnowmects said in #2:
> Oh, crazyhouse. My limited experience is that castling is much worse in crazyhouse; every piece is in play for the whole game so restricting the king to the corner is just removing your ability to block attacks.
That's a good point, I basically castled into the attack with the above game but I'm curious what variables in these regards determine when it's safe to castle because clearly high rated players are castling kingside with white and winning...
https://lichess.org/BnktdvNx
King safety is paramount in Crazyhouse.
While the King is fine where he is in some situations what you will find is that many people will go for the f pawn if you don't castle...or prevent you from castling in order to launch such an attack. These days there is a lot of opening theory to know, by which I mean an awareness that amounts to saying to oneself "if I do this it will allow that, and I should not allow that".
The logic of playing @h3 or @h6 is creating a hole in the opponent's defence, in other words making inroads. In some lines black has the chance to do it first and should in theory win as a result, but such games are sharp (meaning that you can find yourself hopelessly lost very quickly and easily unless you have a good idea of what you are doing) rather than positional.
It is not easy to play in unfamiliar positions, so you might want to try new things against much weaker opponents or even by playing against the computer on a low setting. You will lose a few games, but you can and should look back at what went wrong: perhaps what you should have done you considered and dismissed too quickly, or didn't even think of. If not, why not?
King safety is paramount in Crazyhouse.
While the King is fine where he is in some situations what you will find is that many people will go for the f pawn if you don't castle...or prevent you from castling in order to launch such an attack. These days there is a lot of opening theory to know, by which I mean an awareness that amounts to saying to oneself "if I do this it will allow that, and I should not allow that".
The logic of playing @h3 or @h6 is creating a hole in the opponent's defence, in other words making inroads. In some lines black has the chance to do it first and should in theory win as a result, but such games are sharp (meaning that you can find yourself hopelessly lost very quickly and easily unless you have a good idea of what you are doing) rather than positional.
It is not easy to play in unfamiliar positions, so you might want to try new things against much weaker opponents or even by playing against the computer on a low setting. You will lose a few games, but you can and should look back at what went wrong: perhaps what you should have done you considered and dismissed too quickly, or didn't even think of. If not, why not?
I like to say there are three principles to piece value; range, protection, and king proximity. I can't tell which game that is so I can't see who's got which reserve pieces, but White doesn't castle until move 20 in that game, and if I'm counting pieces right then Black has some dangerous pieces they can drop on c3, so castling creates space to avoid an immediate threat against the king or queen.
There's another one where they don't castle until move 24 and Black has no pieces in reserve. I'm not sure why they do it in that one. Maybe they're killing time, maybe they're so far ahead they can't be threatened. Still, doesn't seem like it's a casual move. Of the few games I checked, any time White castled early they lost.
I like to say there are three principles to piece value; range, protection, and king proximity. I can't tell which game that is so I can't see who's got which reserve pieces, but White doesn't castle until move 20 in that game, and if I'm counting pieces right then Black has some dangerous pieces they can drop on c3, so castling creates space to avoid an immediate threat against the king or queen.
There's another one where they don't castle until move 24 and Black has no pieces in reserve. I'm not sure why they do it in that one. Maybe they're killing time, maybe they're so far ahead they can't be threatened. Still, doesn't seem like it's a casual move. Of the few games I checked, any time White castled early they lost.
So to add to what Marlonc said, the point of @h3, @h6 is to provoke your opponent to defend g2/g7 because logically that's the square in front of your king and must be protected. Instead, you want your opponent to think that so that you can sack your bishop there and build an attack.
So the line goes: @h6, gxh6; Bxh6, @g7; Bxg7, Kxg7; @g5 with the idea of controlling f6 and g6 where in future you should drop a knight and a pawn/bishop.
Consequently, one should allow the bishop to take the rook and recapture with the queen. It's not an exact science and it depends on the position and the pieces in your opponent's hand, but in most cases that's what you should do to defend.
So to add to what Marlonc said, the point of @h3, @h6 is to provoke your opponent to defend g2/g7 because logically that's the square in front of your king and must be protected. Instead, you want your opponent to think that so that you can sack your bishop there and build an attack.
So the line goes: @h6, gxh6; Bxh6, @g7; Bxg7, Kxg7; @g5 with the idea of controlling f6 and g6 where in future you should drop a knight and a pawn/bishop.
Consequently, one should allow the bishop to take the rook and recapture with the queen. It's not an exact science and it depends on the position and the pieces in your opponent's hand, but in most cases that's what you should do to defend.
@Deadban said in #6:
So the line goes: @h6, gxh6; Bxh6, @g7; Bxg7, Kxg7; @g5 with the idea of controlling f6 and g6 where in future you should drop a knight and a pawn/bishop.
Thank you. Do you have an example game of this defense? My auditory processing disability makes it hard to follow the string of moves if they're not presented visually.
@Deadban said in #6:
> So the line goes: @h6, gxh6; Bxh6, @g7; Bxg7, Kxg7; @g5 with the idea of controlling f6 and g6 where in future you should drop a knight and a pawn/bishop.
Thank you. Do you have an example game of this defense? My auditory processing disability makes it hard to follow the string of moves if they're not presented visually.
@dnowmects said in #5:
I'm not sure why they do it
That's definitely how I feel sometimes, too. Magic at work.
@dnowmects said in #5:
> I'm not sure why they do it
That's definitely how I feel sometimes, too. Magic at work.
@Marlonc said in #4:
It is not easy to play in unfamiliar positions, so you might want to try new things against much weaker opponents or even by playing against the computer on a low setting.
I appreciate the wisdom of what you're saying, and agree with it, but I also find myself trying new things against higher rated opponents to get them out of their comfort zone. It doesn't make me more likely to win but when I do it's often cause I did something bizarre outside of theory.
Is there a theory for going outside theory? That's what I'm asking now.
Maybe the answer is:
brain transplant.
@Marlonc said in #4:
> It is not easy to play in unfamiliar positions, so you might want to try new things against much weaker opponents or even by playing against the computer on a low setting.
I appreciate the wisdom of what you're saying, and agree with it, but I also find myself trying new things against higher rated opponents to get them out of their comfort zone. It doesn't make me more likely to win but when I do it's often cause I did something bizarre outside of theory.
Is there a theory for going outside theory? That's what I'm asking now.
Maybe the answer is:
brain transplant.
ZH is complex and it all depends on concrete calculation, but if you want me to give a general rule my take on @h3/@h6 is that they're usually good moves. Sometimes they're not best, but they're rarely plainly bad unless you're missing an obvious threat somewhere else on the board.
So yes, facing @h3/@h6 is one of those big problems of the ZH player...
I find everything you said reasonable, but let me add something to this:
Is it as simple as don't castle into the attack when your opponent has the opportunity and an open diagonal with the bishop?
It's true that the castled king may suffer more against @h3/@h6, especially with a king on h1 as in your game (hxg2 threats a tempo too). But "not castling" is just not a simple recipe to prevent it because @h3/@h6 is also particularly annoying with an uncastled king when the Bf1(Bf8) has already been developed (meaning g2/g7 is weak).
Depending on the material you have in the pocket (or you may have with your trades) there are common typical ways to face it (as White N@f4, R@g3, B@f3, B@h1, N@e3, etc) or prevent it (h3, B@h3, N@f4, B@g4, N@g5, ...) but each one with its own drawbacks...
Again, tough to give general rules. Concrete calculation (and/or opening preparation) will give you better answers on how to deal with it.
ZH is complex and it all depends on concrete calculation, but if you want me to give a general rule my take on @h3/@h6 is that they're usually good moves. Sometimes they're not best, but they're rarely plainly bad unless you're missing an obvious threat somewhere else on the board.
So yes, facing @h3/@h6 is one of those big problems of the ZH player...
I find everything you said reasonable, but let me add something to this:
> Is it as simple as don't castle into the attack when your opponent has the opportunity and an open diagonal with the bishop?
It's true that the castled king may suffer more against @h3/@h6, especially with a king on h1 as in your game (hxg2 threats a tempo too). But "not castling" is just not a simple recipe to prevent it because @h3/@h6 is also particularly annoying with an uncastled king when the Bf1(Bf8) has already been developed (meaning g2/g7 is weak).
Depending on the material you have in the pocket (or you may have with your trades) there are common typical ways to face it (as White N@f4, R@g3, B@f3, B@h1, N@e3, etc) or prevent it (h3, B@h3, N@f4, B@g4, N@g5, ...) but each one with its own drawbacks...
Again, tough to give general rules. Concrete calculation (and/or opening preparation) will give you better answers on how to deal with it.