Your network blocks the Lichess assets!

lichess.org
Donate

Silman's Complete Endgame Course

@TheMagnusAura said ^

Have you purchased the book? Because if you are planning to, Dvoretsky's endgame manual seems better. (I don't have any experience with the Silman book.)

I wanted to buy Dvoretsky's manual but many people told me that it's WAY too difficult for my level. In fact, Silman's book itself says to buy it AFTER you finished all of his book.

@TheMagnusAura said [^](/forum/redirect/post/T6blmqcl) > Have you purchased the book? Because if you are planning to, Dvoretsky's endgame manual seems better. (I don't have any experience with the Silman book.) I wanted to buy Dvoretsky's manual but many people told me that it's WAY too difficult for my level. In fact, Silman's book itself says to buy it AFTER you finished all of his book.

@lizani said ^

Study the productions of endgame masters. There is plenty of excellent material with a 'Made in Norway' stamp.

So to consolidate knowledge of the endgame I should analyze games of endgame specialists?

@lizani said [^](/forum/redirect/post/LfHZ6ALJ) > Study the productions of endgame masters. There is plenty of excellent material with a 'Made in Norway' stamp. So to consolidate knowledge of the endgame I should analyze games of endgame specialists?

@TSC-Vengeance said ^

sure or against stockfish.

Can you recommend me an app or a website that helps me training endings?
Can Fritz 20 be useful in any way?

@TSC-Vengeance said [^](/forum/redirect/post/ECA9CLqY) > sure or against stockfish. Can you recommend me an app or a website that helps me training endings? Can Fritz 20 be useful in any way?

@TheMagnusAura said ^

What I do in endgame positions is that:

  1. Make my own plan.
  2. Compare with what the correct one is.
  3. See why my plan was wrong.

Ok. Do I make my own plan from the starting position? Like solving it.

@TheMagnusAura said [^](/forum/redirect/post/tBzDx3Nt) > What I do in endgame positions is that: > 1. Make my own plan. > 2. Compare with what the correct one is. > 3. See why my plan was wrong. Ok. Do I make my own plan from the starting position? Like solving it.

@MatthewLikesChess said ^

I wanted to buy Dvoretsky's manual but many people told me that it's WAY too difficult for my level. In fact, Silman's book itself says to buy it AFTER you finished all of his book.

Endgames is calculation and a lot of the lines are quite forcing. I'm pretty sure a 1500 can brute force 95% of the calculations without issue since while lines could be 10 moves deep there's just 1 or 2 variations to follow. Some of it involves a bit of work but once you master everything in the manual you're pretty much at titled level player for the endgame. It might take you 100 hours to work through Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual but it's best 100 hours you can spend.

Actually anything worthwhile in Silman's book is covered in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual so you can skip the buy Silman's book step. The only case where Silman's book has value is if reader finds Silman an engaging writer and finds Dvoretsky too dry as an average book you read will give much more benefit than an excellent one that just sits on your bookshelf.

@MatthewLikesChess said [^](/forum/redirect/post/4mKXUQz3) > I wanted to buy Dvoretsky's manual but many people told me that it's WAY too difficult for my level. In fact, Silman's book itself says to buy it AFTER you finished all of his book. Endgames is calculation and a lot of the lines are quite forcing. I'm pretty sure a 1500 can brute force 95% of the calculations without issue since while lines could be 10 moves deep there's just 1 or 2 variations to follow. Some of it involves a bit of work but once you master everything in the manual you're pretty much at titled level player for the endgame. It might take you 100 hours to work through Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual but it's best 100 hours you can spend. Actually anything worthwhile in Silman's book is covered in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual so you can skip the buy Silman's book step. The only case where Silman's book has value is if reader finds Silman an engaging writer and finds Dvoretsky too dry as an average book you read will give much more benefit than an excellent one that just sits on your bookshelf.

@KMcGeoch said ^

I wanted to buy Dvoretsky's manual but many people told me that it's WAY too difficult for my level. In fact, Silman's book itself says to buy it AFTER you finished all of his book.

Endgames is calculation and a lot of the lines are quite forcing. I'm pretty sure a 1500 can brute force 95% of the calculations without issue since while lines could be 10 moves deep there's just 1 or 2 variations to follow. Some of it involves a bit of work but once you master everything in the manual you're pretty much at titled level player for the endgame. It might take you 100 hours to work through Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual but it's best 100 hours you can spend.

Actually anything worthwhile in Silman's book is covered in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual so you can skip the buy Silman's book step. The only case where Silman's book has value is if reader finds Silman an engaging writer and finds Dvoretsky too dry as an average book you read will give much more benefit than an excellent one that just sits on your bookshelf.

Dvoretsky's book has complex endings that you can't understand without a solid basic knowledge. It would be a HUGE waste of time trying to understand something too difficult.
It's like skipping equations to go straight to integrals and derivatives :)

@KMcGeoch said [^](/forum/redirect/post/Xv7WowiP) > > I wanted to buy Dvoretsky's manual but many people told me that it's WAY too difficult for my level. In fact, Silman's book itself says to buy it AFTER you finished all of his book. > > Endgames is calculation and a lot of the lines are quite forcing. I'm pretty sure a 1500 can brute force 95% of the calculations without issue since while lines could be 10 moves deep there's just 1 or 2 variations to follow. Some of it involves a bit of work but once you master everything in the manual you're pretty much at titled level player for the endgame. It might take you 100 hours to work through Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual but it's best 100 hours you can spend. > > Actually anything worthwhile in Silman's book is covered in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual so you can skip the buy Silman's book step. The only case where Silman's book has value is if reader finds Silman an engaging writer and finds Dvoretsky too dry as an average book you read will give much more benefit than an excellent one that just sits on your bookshelf. Dvoretsky's book has complex endings that you can't understand without a solid basic knowledge. It would be a HUGE waste of time trying to understand something too difficult. It's like skipping equations to go straight to integrals and derivatives :)

@MatthewLikesChess said ^

Dvoretsky's book has complex endings that you can't understand without a solid basic knowledge. It would be a HUGE waste of time trying to understand something too difficult.
It's like skipping equations to go straight to integrals and derivatives :)

The basic knowledge is also provided in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual. For example King + Pawn endgames starts with K+P vs K. I'm unsure which "complex endings" you're worried about and in the book it includes less important sections in a different colour.

Just as a reference point many people call K+BN vs K checkmate complex. However I've taught kids rated around 1000 how to do it. It's a matter of learning technique and once you learn it whether you're rated 1000 or 2500 you solve positions exactly the same way. So to master endgames you need to learn key positions, general principles and have accurate calculation. Other than that it's quite simple and people pretending it's complicated either don't understand it or want to gatekeep knowledge

@MatthewLikesChess said [^](/forum/redirect/post/B9PBc2r4) > Dvoretsky's book has complex endings that you can't understand without a solid basic knowledge. It would be a HUGE waste of time trying to understand something too difficult. > It's like skipping equations to go straight to integrals and derivatives :) The basic knowledge is also provided in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual. For example King + Pawn endgames starts with K+P vs K. I'm unsure which "complex endings" you're worried about and in the book it includes less important sections in a different colour. Just as a reference point many people call K+BN vs K checkmate complex. However I've taught kids rated around 1000 how to do it. It's a matter of learning technique and once you learn it whether you're rated 1000 or 2500 you solve positions exactly the same way. So to master endgames you need to learn key positions, general principles and have accurate calculation. Other than that it's quite simple and people pretending it's complicated either don't understand it or want to gatekeep knowledge

@KMcGeoch said ^

Dvoretsky's book has complex endings that you can't understand without a solid basic knowledge. It would be a HUGE waste of time trying to understand something too difficult.
It's like skipping equations to go straight to integrals and derivatives :)

The basic knowledge is also provided in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual. For example King + Pawn endgames starts with K+P vs K. I'm unsure which "complex endings" you're worried about and in the book it includes less important sections in a different colour.

Just as a reference point many people call K+BN vs K checkmate complex. However I've taught kids rated around 1000 how to do it. It's a matter of learning technique and once you learn it whether you're rated 1000 or 2500 you solve positions exactly the same way. So to master endgames you need to learn key positions, general principles and have accurate calculation. Other than that it's quite simple and people pretending it's complicated either don't understand it or want to gatekeep knowledge

Man, I don't know. People online literally say it's master level and even my coach said so. Dvoretsky's book is easily the BEST endgames book but it's also one of the most difficult. Its exercise are atleast master level.

@KMcGeoch said [^](/forum/redirect/post/MJrSrUmH) > > Dvoretsky's book has complex endings that you can't understand without a solid basic knowledge. It would be a HUGE waste of time trying to understand something too difficult. > > It's like skipping equations to go straight to integrals and derivatives :) > > The basic knowledge is also provided in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual. For example King + Pawn endgames starts with K+P vs K. I'm unsure which "complex endings" you're worried about and in the book it includes less important sections in a different colour. > > Just as a reference point many people call K+BN vs K checkmate complex. However I've taught kids rated around 1000 how to do it. It's a matter of learning technique and once you learn it whether you're rated 1000 or 2500 you solve positions exactly the same way. So to master endgames you need to learn key positions, general principles and have accurate calculation. Other than that it's quite simple and people pretending it's complicated either don't understand it or want to gatekeep knowledge Man, I don't know. People online literally say it's master level and even my coach said so. Dvoretsky's book is easily the BEST endgames book but it's also one of the most difficult. Its exercise are atleast master level.

@MatthewLikesChess said ^

Man, I don't know. People online literally say it's master level and even my coach said so. Dvoretsky's book is easily the BEST endgames book but it's also one of the most difficult. Its exercise are atleast master level.

Well you can check out https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/89025.pdf and look at the variations. If you work through it slowly it's not too hard to understand.

For example taking Peters - Browne example on page 17pdf/208 book the move 1.Rc8+ looks quite mysterious. However if you work through the position and read it carefully you'll see that point is that you get one of 3 outcomes

  1. Perpetual check i.e. a draw
  2. Black King goes to b1 so loses a tempi as it later needs to make way to allow pawn to promote.
  3. Black King goes to c1 and blocks Rd1 idea

The the Tarrasch - Blumich position is even simpler as it's a 4 move variation. The line not included that novices may assume is correct is 1.h6 Rb6 2.h7 Rh6+ picking up the pawn.

It's not an easy book to work through and you do need to work hard while going through it so it's not like a Silman book where you can casually skim through it. However if willing to put work in and if necessary check lines on a board and/or engine I don't think it's out of reach of any player who is 1200-1400+. If you are willing to put work in then it's worth it.

@MatthewLikesChess said [^](/forum/redirect/post/HJNmNp5G) > Man, I don't know. People online literally say it's master level and even my coach said so. Dvoretsky's book is easily the BEST endgames book but it's also one of the most difficult. Its exercise are atleast master level. Well you can check out https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/89025.pdf and look at the variations. If you work through it slowly it's not too hard to understand. For example taking Peters - Browne example on page 17pdf/208 book the move 1.Rc8+ looks quite mysterious. However if you work through the position and read it carefully you'll see that point is that you get one of 3 outcomes 1. Perpetual check i.e. a draw 2. Black King goes to b1 so loses a tempi as it later needs to make way to allow pawn to promote. 3. Black King goes to c1 and blocks Rd1 idea The the Tarrasch - Blumich position is even simpler as it's a 4 move variation. The line not included that novices may assume is correct is 1.h6 Rb6 2.h7 Rh6+ picking up the pawn. It's not an easy book to work through and you do need to work hard while going through it so it's not like a Silman book where you can casually skim through it. However if willing to put work in and if necessary check lines on a board and/or engine I don't think it's out of reach of any player who is 1200-1400+. If you are willing to put work in then it's worth it.

No need to worry. Chess improvement is an iterative and incremental process. Since you've read the parts of the book you want. What you should do now is play some games and then analyze them to see how what you did compared with what the book says. You can also take some of the starting positions in the book and quiz yourself to see if you find the right moves.

Silman's Endgame Course is a fine book up until you reach 2200. Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual is targeted towards the 2200+ audience.

No need to worry. Chess improvement is an iterative and incremental process. Since you've read the parts of the book you want. What you should do now is play some games and then analyze them to see how what you did compared with what the book says. You can also take some of the starting positions in the book and quiz yourself to see if you find the right moves. Silman's Endgame Course is a fine book up until you reach 2200. Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual is targeted towards the 2200+ audience.