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This is how much ELO you are losing in the opening

Not sure if this is the right place for it, but I am curious how much ELO you guys are losing in the opening :)

For me it was 32 Elo!

Not sure if this is the right place for it, but I am curious how much ELO you guys are losing in the opening :) For me it was 32 Elo!

Interesting idea and execution. Kudos to you for bringing this to the community.

Interesting idea and execution. Kudos to you for bringing this to the community.

I created in the past 2 similar projects with myself as subject.

  1. In 2012 I made a comparison of ratingdifference between otb (on the board classical fide rated)-games with exiting the opening good or bad. See https://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2012/07/schaakopeningen-studeren.html So it was about 80 fideratingpoints. As a fidemaster (+2300 fide) I found that substantial.

  2. In 2023 I made a comparison of ratingdifference between online-games with and without playing my repertoire. https://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2023/11/schaakopeningen-studeren-deel-6.html So it was about 100 points for white and 134 points for black. That is very close to your average 113 points.

I stopped playing with my normal repertoire here on lichess and shifted for security reasons to chess.com. I see your tool also works for chess.com. Your tool says that my chess.com-profile loses 14 points in the opening with my repertoire slightly adapted for online faster timecontrols. My rating is +2700 so not Average Joe.

Anyway I would advise players to consult a coach instead of a tool for improving. Definitely at lower levels openings shouldn't be a priority.

I created in the past 2 similar projects with myself as subject. 1) In 2012 I made a comparison of ratingdifference between otb (on the board classical fide rated)-games with exiting the opening good or bad. See https://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2012/07/schaakopeningen-studeren.html So it was about 80 fideratingpoints. As a fidemaster (+2300 fide) I found that substantial. 2) In 2023 I made a comparison of ratingdifference between online-games with and without playing my repertoire. https://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2023/11/schaakopeningen-studeren-deel-6.html So it was about 100 points for white and 134 points for black. That is very close to your average 113 points. I stopped playing with my normal repertoire here on lichess and shifted for security reasons to chess.com. I see your tool also works for chess.com. Your tool says that my chess.com-profile loses 14 points in the opening with my repertoire slightly adapted for online faster timecontrols. My rating is +2700 so not Average Joe. Anyway I would advise players to consult a coach instead of a tool for improving. Definitely at lower levels openings shouldn't be a priority.

Thank you for the detailed response mvhk! Fun blog to read as well :)

Thank you for the detailed response mvhk! Fun blog to read as well :)

@xander333

What is an opening for you? The first 5 moves, 10 moves, 20 moves .... Do you consider positions which nobody has reached before to be still an opening as I would rather call that the middlegame? Maybe I missed it but I don't see this anywhere explained on your site.

I am right now developing a tool to measure not the accuracy of somebodies openings but how much somebody knows about openings from the best players in the world and if the person is actively following the latest trends.

@xander333 What is an opening for you? The first 5 moves, 10 moves, 20 moves .... Do you consider positions which nobody has reached before to be still an opening as I would rather call that the middlegame? Maybe I missed it but I don't see this anywhere explained on your site. I am right now developing a tool to measure not the accuracy of somebodies openings but how much somebody knows about openings from the best players in the world and if the person is actively following the latest trends.

it kinda interesting number but insight I gained that this does not really reveal somehting to fix as typically I lose most points in English as I playi it most BUT there are very few mistakes show up twice and hardly any (or not even cant recall) more that. Opponents play so varied responses that fixing your opening is not really doable. If done this mistake just once fixing that may appear again any time soon.

it kinda interesting number but insight I gained that this does not really reveal somehting to fix as typically I lose most points in English as I playi it most BUT there are very few mistakes show up twice and hardly any (or not even cant recall) more that. Opponents play so varied responses that fixing your opening is not really doable. If done this mistake just once fixing that may appear again any time soon.

It was actually quite interesting. While I'm unsure how accurate it is taken at face value it does indicate that opening work isn't as important as middlegame work. In my case I lost 22 Elo in the opening. I'm a bit skeptical about it's accuracy since I then decided to test WorstFish and it only lost 132 Elo from it's opening play when it plays the worst move possible.

So it does show that people wanting big rating gains should focus elsewhere if it's accurate.

One thing I'll note with the tool is that it doesn't separate black and white games so if you play opening well for one side but badly for the other it doesn't separate that out.

It was actually quite interesting. While I'm unsure how accurate it is taken at face value it does indicate that opening work isn't as important as middlegame work. In my case I lost 22 Elo in the opening. I'm a bit skeptical about it's accuracy since I then decided to test WorstFish and it only lost 132 Elo from it's opening play when it plays the worst move possible. So it does show that people wanting big rating gains should focus elsewhere if it's accurate. One thing I'll note with the tool is that it doesn't separate black and white games so if you play opening well for one side but badly for the other it doesn't separate that out.

@mvhk said ^

@xander333

What is an opening for you? The first 5 moves, 10 moves, 20 moves .... Do you consider positions which nobody has reached before to be still an opening as I would rather call that the middlegame? Maybe I missed it but I don't see this anywhere explained on your site.

I am right now developing a tool to measure not the accuracy of somebodies openings but how much somebody knows about openings from the best players in the world and if the person is actively following the latest trends.

Right now it looks 10 moves deep by default, but you can actually change this in the advanced settings when starting an analysis!

@mvhk said [^](/forum/redirect/post/szcD2rSd) > @xander333 > > What is an opening for you? The first 5 moves, 10 moves, 20 moves .... Do you consider positions which nobody has reached before to be still an opening as I would rather call that the middlegame? Maybe I missed it but I don't see this anywhere explained on your site. > > I am right now developing a tool to measure not the accuracy of somebodies openings but how much somebody knows about openings from the best players in the world and if the person is actively following the latest trends. Right now it looks 10 moves deep by default, but you can actually change this in the advanced settings when starting an analysis!

@petri999 said ^

it kinda interesting number but insight I gained that this does not really reveal somehting to fix as typically I lose most points in English as I playi it most BUT there are very few mistakes show up twice and hardly any (or not even cant recall) more that. Opponents play so varied responses that fixing your opening is not really doable. If done this mistake just once fixing that may appear again any time soon.

You can load up to 2000 games (instead of the default 300) by clicking on Advanced Settings! Might find some more recurring mistakes that way.

@petri999 said [^](/forum/redirect/post/MFtXk8wj) > it kinda interesting number but insight I gained that this does not really reveal somehting to fix as typically I lose most points in English as I playi it most BUT there are very few mistakes show up twice and hardly any (or not even cant recall) more that. Opponents play so varied responses that fixing your opening is not really doable. If done this mistake just once fixing that may appear again any time soon. You can load up to 2000 games (instead of the default 300) by clicking on Advanced Settings! Might find some more recurring mistakes that way.