https://lichess.org/zFsLbXF9/black#33
In this Game, Move 17 for Black.Stockfish gives :Nc2 : -3.5Ra5 : -2.8Qa8 -2.2h6 : -2.1a6 : -1.8
In the game, i remember i calculated :
Nc2, Ra5 and a6 ( and used 22.5 seconds )
( i didn't "see" Qa8 or h6 like a possible move )
But finally played : Rc2 ( i try to play safe when i have a winning position, but frequently there is better move )
Do you analyse the game like me ?
How can i find the good move in a position like that in about 20 s ?
https://lichess.org/zFsLbXF9/black#33
In this Game, Move 17 for Black.
Stockfish gives :
Nc2 : -3.5
Ra5 : -2.8
Qa8 -2.2
h6 : -2.1
a6 : -1.8
In the game, i remember i calculated :
Nc2, Ra5 and a6 ( and used 22.5 seconds )
( i didn't "see" Qa8 or h6 like a possible move )
But finally played : Rc2 ( i try to play safe when i have a winning position, but frequently there is better move )
Do you analyse the game like me ?
How can i find the good move in a position like that in about 20 s ?
And hello everybody :)
14 d5 wins: an unstoppable passed pawn.
You still had 8:03 on your clock then.
14 d5 wins: an unstoppable passed pawn.
You still had 8:03 on your clock then.
Yes, but i play black not white, and my opponent didn't not find this move, can you explain, how you find it ?
This position has been played 8 times on Lichess. Two players with an average rating of 2387, and another with a rating of 2200, couldn't find d5. It's clearly not so obvious that Black can't capture a pawn that advances prematurely into the opponent's lines; 90% of the time it doesn't work, and in these cases, it requires a lot of calculation to see that it does. But the question wasn't about move 14, but about move 17 (even though move 14 is indeed interesting). The game lasted 62 moves, so 10 seconds per move plus a 5-second increment. At 1900 Elo, you don't calculate that quickly, and clearly not at 2387 either, which is why I was looking for a solution to improve.
Yes, but i play black not white, and my opponent didn't not find this move, can you explain, how you find it ?
This position has been played 8 times on Lichess. Two players with an average rating of 2387, and another with a rating of 2200, couldn't find d5. It's clearly not so obvious that Black can't capture a pawn that advances prematurely into the opponent's lines; 90% of the time it doesn't work, and in these cases, it requires a lot of calculation to see that it does. But the question wasn't about move 14, but about move 17 (even though move 14 is indeed interesting). The game lasted 62 moves, so 10 seconds per move plus a 5-second increment. At 1900 Elo, you don't calculate that quickly, and clearly not at 2387 either, which is why I was looking for a solution to improve.
[Site "https://lichess.org/zFsLbXF9"] I guess that the idea was to draw the e3-queen away from the protection of the d4 and e4 pawns. I certainly would not have seen the opportunity. It is something of a surprise (to me) that White does not have any good options after 17...Nc2 18 Qd3 Na3. For example: 19 Rbe1 Nxb5 20 Qxb5 Ba6
[Site "https://lichess.org/zFsLbXF9"] I guess that the idea was to draw the e3-queen away from the protection of the d4 and e4 pawns. I certainly would not have seen the opportunity. It is something of a surprise (to me) that White does not have any good options after 17...Nc2 18 Qd3 Na3. For example: 19 Rbe1 Nxb5 20 Qxb5 Ba6
"how you find it ?"
- Advancing a passed pawn is always to calculate. Often it is good, sometimes not. Calculate.
It is a pattern.
'A passed pawn is a dangerous criminal, to be kept under lock and key' - Nimzovich.
"Two players with an average rating of 2387, and another with a rating of 2200, couldn't find d5."
- At what time control? Bullet?
"it requires a lot of calculation"
"about move 17"
- 17 g4? instead of 17 Bc4 is a mistake. 17...Nc2 instead of 17...Rc2? refutes it. The point is that ...Nc2 and ...Na3 forks Rb1 and Bb5. This requires calculation. You still had 07:35.
"The game lasted 62 moves"
- It could have been over much sooner.
By move 20 it was essentially over.
"10 seconds per move plus a 5-second increment"
10+5 is best played at average 25 seconds/move.
By move 30 increment alone should suffice.
"At 1900 Elo, you don't calculate that quickly"
- Better play 15+10 instead of 10+5.
"how you find it ?"
* Advancing a passed pawn is always to calculate. Often it is good, sometimes not. Calculate.
It is a pattern.
'A passed pawn is a dangerous criminal, to be kept under lock and key' - Nimzovich.
"Two players with an average rating of 2387, and another with a rating of 2200, couldn't find d5."
* At what time control? Bullet?
"it requires a lot of calculation"
* Yes.
"about move 17"
* 17 g4? instead of 17 Bc4 is a mistake. 17...Nc2 instead of 17...Rc2? refutes it. The point is that ...Nc2 and ...Na3 forks Rb1 and Bb5. This requires calculation. You still had 07:35.
"The game lasted 62 moves"
* It could have been over much sooner.
By move 20 it was essentially over.
"10 seconds per move plus a 5-second increment"
10+5 is best played at average 25 seconds/move.
By move 30 increment alone should suffice.
"At 1900 Elo, you don't calculate that quickly"
* Better play 15+10 instead of 10+5.
@tpr said in #6:
... 10+5 is best played at average 25 seconds/move.
Many players might have difficulty finishing successfully from move 31 on, just relying on the 5-second increment (especially if the opponent has averaged 19 seconds per move and still has a 3-minute time reserve).
@tpr said in #6:
By move 30 increment alone should suffice. ...
As far as I know, there is no guarantee that things will happen in the way that tpr thinks that they "should" happen.
@tpr said in #6:
> ... 10+5 is best played at average 25 seconds/move.
Many players might have difficulty finishing successfully from move 31 on, just relying on the 5-second increment (especially if the opponent has averaged 19 seconds per move and still has a 3-minute time reserve).
@tpr said in #6:
> By move 30 increment alone should suffice. ...
As far as I know, there is no guarantee that things will happen in the way that tpr thinks that they "should" happen.
"from move 31 on"
- This game would have been over by move 20 if white had found 14 d5.
"from move 31 on"
* This game would have been over by move 20 if white had found 14 d5.
@tpr said in #8:
... This game would have been over by move 20 if white had found 14 d5.
Perhaps, opportunities are not dependably found, averaging 25 seconds per move.
Would it have been time for resignation after 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 cxd5 Nxd5 5 e4 Nxc3 6 bxc3 c5 7 Rb1 cxd4 8 cxd4 Nc6 9 Nf3 Be7 10 Be2 O-O 11 O-O b6 12 Bb5 Bb7 13 Bf4 Rc8 14 d5 exd5 15 exd5 Nb8 16 d6 Bf6 17 d7 Rc5 18 Re1 Rxb5 19 Rxb5 Nxd7 20 Bd6 ?
And don't forget: "... i play black not white, ..." - MagiciansGambit (#4)
@tpr said in #8:
> ... This game would have been over by move 20 if white had found 14 d5.
Perhaps, opportunities are not dependably found, averaging 25 seconds per move.
Would it have been time for resignation after 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 cxd5 Nxd5 5 e4 Nxc3 6 bxc3 c5 7 Rb1 cxd4 8 cxd4 Nc6 9 Nf3 Be7 10 Be2 O-O 11 O-O b6 12 Bb5 Bb7 13 Bf4 Rc8 14 d5 exd5 15 exd5 Nb8 16 d6 Bf6 17 d7 Rc5 18 Re1 Rxb5 19 Rxb5 Nxd7 20 Bd6 ?
And don't forget: "... i play black not white, ..." - MagiciansGambit (#4)
it was good game lol