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How to play in this particular pawn structure as black?

Usually as black when I play against the Bowdler attack or when I play the Old Sicilian I end up with this pawn structure and to be honest I don't know how to play it.

(Please ignore the kings, they are there so the interactive board actually shows up, I'm concerned about the pawn structure)

https://lichess.org/study/KVG764ZD/owRYbzpq

The pawn structure is characterized by having black pawns on d5 and c4 and thus black enjoys more space on the queenside. I don't know how to take advantage of that extra space. Usually my ideas are to just launch a pawn storm on the queenside and hope to get a passed pawn in the endgame. But usually what ends up happening is I get a very drawish closed position where I don't get to do anything special.

In this game the structure shows up after move 9

https://lichess.org/XG92EGfV/black#18

This one after move 8

https://lichess.org/uT2zgaF5/black#16

Sometimes white has a knight on c3 rather than a pawn like in this game (move 12)

https://lichess.org/a3YPd6vy/black#24

I'm clueless about what should be the right middlegame plan.

Sometimes I wonder if instead of pushing the c pawn to c4 I should let white take my c pawn and try to play with the isolated queen pawn. Perhaps that would give me more chances for a decisive result. Like in these two games:

(Move 10)

https://lichess.org/0AV5dJKJ/black#20

(Move 11)

https://lichess.org/4644FcO7/black#21

Everyone's input is appreciated. But if you are a really strong player (2300+) who would like to help a fellow woodpusher, your advice will be extremely appreciated.

Thanks.

Usually as black when I play against the Bowdler attack or when I play the Old Sicilian I end up with this pawn structure and to be honest I don't know how to play it. (Please ignore the kings, they are there so the interactive board actually shows up, I'm concerned about the pawn structure) https://lichess.org/study/KVG764ZD/owRYbzpq The pawn structure is characterized by having black pawns on d5 and c4 and thus black enjoys more space on the queenside. I don't know how to take advantage of that extra space. Usually my ideas are to just launch a pawn storm on the queenside and hope to get a passed pawn in the endgame. But usually what ends up happening is I get a very drawish closed position where I don't get to do anything special. In this game the structure shows up after move 9 https://lichess.org/XG92EGfV/black#18 This one after move 8 https://lichess.org/uT2zgaF5/black#16 Sometimes white has a knight on c3 rather than a pawn like in this game (move 12) https://lichess.org/a3YPd6vy/black#24 I'm clueless about what should be the right middlegame plan. Sometimes I wonder if instead of pushing the c pawn to c4 I should let white take my c pawn and try to play with the isolated queen pawn. Perhaps that would give me more chances for a decisive result. Like in these two games: (Move 10) https://lichess.org/0AV5dJKJ/black#20 (Move 11) https://lichess.org/4644FcO7/black#21 Everyone's input is appreciated. But if you are a really strong player (2300+) who would like to help a fellow woodpusher, your advice will be extremely appreciated. Thanks.

That is a common London-type position.
You basically want to go for ...b5, a5 and gain Queenside space.
You just have to watch our for whites e4 push and you're good.
"Simple!" :)

That is a common London-type position. You basically want to go for ...b5, a5 and gain Queenside space. You just have to watch our for whites e4 push and you're good. "Simple!" :)

@GrandChickenKing said ^

You just have to watch our for whites e4 push and you're good.

e4? There are no e pawns in the structure. Do you mean d4?

@GrandChickenKing said [^](/forum/redirect/post/zDrQ5791) > You just have to watch our for whites e4 push and you're good. e4? There are no e pawns in the structure. Do you mean d4?

e4 from the london system
also in the game i dont know why he took on c5...generally white wants to play c3 and build up the center

e4 from the london system also in the game i dont know why he took on c5...generally white wants to play c3 and build up the center

Oh. This is the Sicilian.
I thought this was the London set up haha
Well, I'm clueless here. Hope you can find some help, though!

Oh. This is the Sicilian. I thought this was the London set up haha Well, I'm clueless here. Hope you can find some help, though!

This kind of position has 3 characteristics:

  1. The e-file is open, so both sides want to occupy it with rooks and black wants to install a knight outpost at e4 and white wants to install a knight outpost at e5.
  2. There is a pawn chain d5-c4 versus d4-c3, so white wants to attack d5 and black wants to attack c3 with ...b5, ...a5, ...b4.
  3. Bc8 is a bad bishop on the same color as its pawns d5-c4 and Bf8 is a good bishop not on the same color as its pawns d5-c4. Likewise Bc1 is a bad bishop on the same color as is pawns b2-c3-d4 and Bf1 is a good bishop not on the same color as its pawns b2-c3-d4. Thus black wants to develop Bc8 outside its pawn chain to f5 or g4, and eventually trade it for Bf1, or even Nf3. Likewise white wants to develop Bc1 outside its pawn chain to f4 or g5 and eventually trade it for Bf8 or even Nf6.
This kind of position has 3 characteristics: 1) The e-file is open, so both sides want to occupy it with rooks and black wants to install a knight outpost at e4 and white wants to install a knight outpost at e5. 2) There is a pawn chain d5-c4 versus d4-c3, so white wants to attack d5 and black wants to attack c3 with ...b5, ...a5, ...b4. 3) Bc8 is a bad bishop on the same color as its pawns d5-c4 and Bf8 is a good bishop not on the same color as its pawns d5-c4. Likewise Bc1 is a bad bishop on the same color as is pawns b2-c3-d4 and Bf1 is a good bishop not on the same color as its pawns b2-c3-d4. Thus black wants to develop Bc8 outside its pawn chain to f5 or g4, and eventually trade it for Bf1, or even Nf3. Likewise white wants to develop Bc1 outside its pawn chain to f4 or g5 and eventually trade it for Bf8 or even Nf6.

I am not familiar with the opening (closest I got is that I used to play a lot of queens gambit with the dubious c5 push by white, which roughly leads to this position with reverse colors). Here are some general thoughts, also keeping the endgame in mind:

  1. It is a bit disguised as you still have a c pawn, but definitely look into the minority attack (a and b pawn minority pushing towards a-b-c pawn)
  2. If you are a approaching an endgame without pieces, keep in mind that you can secure 'reserve' tempo, for example by playing a4 you have b6 and b5 in reserve if you ever need to push away the enemy king. Similarly if you play b5 you will have a6 and maybe even a5 in reserve (note that in both cases it does mean your king cannot walk in via that side anymore
  3. If white ever plays b4, be actively aware that you have these choices:
    a. Capture b4, this is mostly interesting if you can put heavy pressure on c3
    b. Push a5, threatening to either push a4 after which you have more space and in the first 3 columsn you have only one undefended pawn (b) where they have two (a, c)

The above is all about the pawn structure itself, that being said what I found is that usually if you go for this structure the opponent realizes that you have a space advantage on the queenside. Unless they can push b3 while you cannot play b4.
In that case a opponent will typically respond by pushing hard on the center, and a bit on the kingside so it may not be too difficult to play your pawns well, but you should make sure not to neglect the rest of the board as usually a quick decision will come from there instead. It does mean you are usually not afraid to trade as the pawn strucuture itself is slightly favorable.

I am not familiar with the opening (closest I got is that I used to play a lot of queens gambit with the dubious c5 push by white, which roughly leads to this position with reverse colors). Here are some general thoughts, also keeping the endgame in mind: 1. It is a bit disguised as you still have a c pawn, but definitely look into the minority attack (a and b pawn minority pushing towards a-b-c pawn) 2. If you are a approaching an endgame without pieces, keep in mind that you can secure 'reserve' tempo, for example by playing a4 you have b6 and b5 in reserve if you ever need to push away the enemy king. Similarly if you play b5 you will have a6 and maybe even a5 in reserve (note that in both cases it does mean your king cannot walk in via that side anymore 3. If white ever plays b4, be actively aware that you have these choices: a. Capture b4, this is mostly interesting if you can put heavy pressure on c3 b. Push a5, threatening to either push a4 after which you have more space and in the first 3 columsn you have only one undefended pawn (b) where they have two (a, c) The above is all about the pawn structure itself, that being said what I found is that usually if you go for this structure the opponent realizes that you have a space advantage on the queenside. Unless they can push b3 while you cannot play b4. In that case a opponent will typically respond by pushing hard on the center, and a bit on the kingside so it may not be too difficult to play your pawns well, but you should make sure not to neglect the rest of the board as usually a quick decision will come from there instead. It does mean you are usually not afraid to trade as the pawn strucuture itself is slightly favorable.

The same pawn structure can arrive from the French Exchange variation, e.g.

https://lichess.org/XQ6Tncj6#14

Here is even a top game with it:

https://lichess.org/ELms3kjZ#13

The same pawn structure can arrive from the French Exchange variation, e.g. https://lichess.org/XQ6Tncj6#14 Here is even a top game with it: https://lichess.org/ELms3kjZ#13