who ever playes the caro kann chalenge me as black

@Inventor_1 said ^

@inventor_1 plays the Caro-Kann. I've invited them to this thread, let's see if they want to play with you. I will challenge you too.

@PowerfulPatzer said ^

Ok, here is the story. I am righting a book on how to beat the Caro Kann and need some exemplary games, I tried to ask me club but no one answered mt ple...

Alright alright, let me stop your right there for a couple of moments.

Your argument is valid, for the most part, but as a 2300 who has devoted his entire Chess Career to both the English and Caro-Kann, I need to teach about some things you said.

1. Just because he is 400 points lower should NOT mean that you deny playing against him. He is literally making a book, that other people will see. The least you could do is play a single match, just one, because at least at that point you are helping him with his book. Sure, it's a 1700, I get that. But, take it from this POV then. If I was an 1000 ELO player looking to hit 1500 or beyond, this book would be helpful for Caro-Kann, right?

You have to think about all parts of the LiChess community before you make a post like that.

This is against 1.5.1 now.
I'm sorry. 1...e5 is the most bland opening in Chess, and all you need to memorize are the most played lines if your ELO is under 1500. It's really not that hard. Sure, when it comes to Caro-Kann, opening principles may seem easy. But fully grasping the middle and endgames make or break you.

With 1...e5, both sides have a lot of room to make mistakes though and get away with them though.
In the Caro-Kann, if black makes a single mistake, the game's over, and that's coming from playing against some of the best players on LiChess itself.

I would like to say though, it was very smart of you to ask him though to play Rapid. I played him within Rapid (I played him today in 15+10 Time Control).

On top of this though, there shouldn't be a need for the author to write if he got badly beat. The fact of the matter is that he is writing a book to help others. They don't need a side note that takes them away from their studies.

If you would like to talk more about this or any other part of your games or my games, I would be up to it.

Thank you.

@CIU_Ak said ^

@inventor_1 plays the Caro-Kann. I've invited them to this thread, let's see if they want to play with you. I will challenge you too.

@PowerfulPatzer said ^

Ok, here is the story. I am righting a book on how to beat the Caro Kann and need some exemplary games, I tried to ask me club but no one answere...

Thank you, and about me being a 1700 the book is not going to be a grandmaster repertoire; it is a book for entertainment by looking at beautiful gambits

@PowerfulPatzer said ^

@inventor_1 plays the Caro-Kann. I've invited them to this thread, let's see if they want to play with you. I will challenge you too.

@PowerfulPatzer said ^

Ok, here is the story. I am righting a book on how to beat the Caro Kann and need some exemplary games, I tried to ask me club but no one ans...

That's what I thought. In no way would it be any GM material, but it's just for giggles and enjoying the game. After all, that's why Chess was made. For fun.

Unless you play at the highest level...

I am actually copying a book called KEY CONCEPTS OF GAMBIT PLAY

@CIU_Ak

1...e5 is not a bland opening. There are many sharp variations such as the King's Gambit and the Fried Liver which players rated under 1500 (Lichess rapid rating) probably don't know how to play against, even worse if they are memorizing lines.

You say both sides have room for making mistakes and getting away with them. This is true in quieter variations (say the Giuoco Piano with d3) but not in the King's Gambit for example. One slip and tactics galore.

And regarding your answer to Inventor regarding their first point, yes, lower rating is not a valid reason in and of itself to deny playing against some players. But there were many other reasons. And it's not like any of us are obliged to play against PowerfulPatzer, per se.

@CIU_Ak said ^

Alright alright, let me stop your right there for a couple of moments.
Your argument is valid, for the most part, but as a 2300 who has devoted his entire Chess Career to both the English and Caro-Kann, I need to teach about some things you said.
Just because he is 400 points lower should NOT mean that you deny playing against him. He is literally making a book, that other people will see. The least you could do is play a single match, just one, because at least at that point you are helping him with his book. Sure, it's a 1700, I get that. But, take it from this POV then. If I was an 1000 ELO player looking to hit 1500 or beyond, this book would be helpful for Caro-Kann, right?
You have to think about all parts of the LiChess community before you make a post like that.
This is against 1.5.1 now.
I'm sorry. 1...e5 is the most bland opening in Chess, and all you need to memorize are the most played lines if your ELO is under 1500. It's really not that hard. Sure, when it comes to Caro-Kann, opening principles may seem easy. But fully grasping the middle and endgames make or break you.
With 1...e5, both sides have a lot of room to make mistakes though and get away with them though.
In the Caro-Kann, if black makes a single mistake, the game's over, and that's coming from playing against some of the best players on LiChess itself.
I would like to say though, it was very smart of you to ask him though to play Rapid. I played him within Rapid (I played him today in 15+10 Time Control).
On top of this though, there shouldn't be a need for the author to write if he got badly beat. The fact of the matter is that he is writing a book to help others. They don't need a side note that takes them away from their studies.
If you would like to talk more about this or any other part of your games or my games, I would be up to it.
Thank you.

1. I actually agreed to play with him, not refused. But on my terms. But he didn't want to play on my terms. It happens. That's normal. So we won't play.

2. I definitely don't owe anyone anything. And I'm an egoist, not an altruist. Attempts to argue that something should be done for the good of others and the like don't work with me. I can sometimes do something for others out of the kindness of my heart. And I actually do. But I very easily refuse other people's favor. I don't owe anything to strangers. I'm completely egoist, not altruist. I consciously believe this is much more correct. I don't intend to discuss this. I don't want to teach anyone for free.

3. No. The move 1...e5 requires many times more knowledge of theory to achieve the same results. This is why I replaced 1...e5 with 1...c6 many, many years ago. Instead of dozens of openings, I play about 10 Caro-Kann variations. The difference is enormous. A huge one. Moreover, those openings usually require much more precise, specific moves than Caro-Kann. This translates into another 2-3 times the memory requirement (multiply those times by these 2-3 times). In Caro-Kann, in many cases, you don't even need to remember the exact move order. I often randomly place the pieces and pawns in these variations; I don't need to remember exactly which moves to make. It's enough for me to remember the fundamental essence of the position, possible plans for subsequent actions, and the best positions for the pieces and pawns. I don't need to remember specific variations. And I've been playing this way successfully for almost 30 years. Moreover, I'm playing what I learned almost 30 years ago as a child from even earlier books and magazines (many of which are older than me). Even this is completely sufficient for me (I've beaten even grandmasters this way, and even more so, various masters, many, many times).

4. No. I needed that condition of mine so that the game would make sense for me. I have the right to my condition. I don't owe anything to other people. See point 2.

5. No. I have little interest in this topic at all. I was invited to the topic. That's why I wrote to the topic's author. Otherwise, I would have simply passed by without saying a word.

6. I like the fact that the topic's author is writing this book. I support it. I wish him luck. But I'm certainly not obligated to do anything to help him or anyone else in something similar.

@IamNOTamod said ^

@CIU_Ak

1...e5 is not a bland opening. There are many sharp variations such as the King's Gambit and the Fried Liver which players rated under 1500 (Lichess rapid rating) probably don't know how to play against, even worse if they are memorizing lines.

You say both sides have room for making mistakes and getting away with them. This is true in quieter variations (say the Giuoco Piano with d3) ...

Both of the openings you mentioned I have played many games against, both on here as well as Chess.com. Both of them are extremely easy to counter, the King's Gambit is an okay opening. It doesn't do much though. Our arguments are the same, that players below 1500 don't know how these openings work. But out of all of them, the one that will actually help your elo the most (and is still to this day very much played at the professional level) is the Caro-Kann.

The King's Gambit can get away with many mistakes still.

And I'm not saying you are obliged to play against him by any means. My argument is simply that it would help the next generation of Chess players, both younger aged and younger elo. But, at the same time, I understand if you don't want to help those people, much like Inventor_1 said.

@Inventor_1 said ^

Alright alright, let me stop your right there for a couple of moments.
Your argument is valid, for the most part, but as a 2300 who has devoted his entire Chess Career to both the English and Caro-Kann, I need to teach about some things you said.
Just because he is 400 points lower should NOT mean that you deny playing against him. He is literally ...

Yeah, I get all of that, and that makes sense then as to why you don't want to teach others for free.

Although, I also understand why the author refused. (To be honest I would do the same)

To the point 3 you put:
I highly doubt the majority of that argument, mainly because I have also studied countless 1.e5 lines and taught them on stream on Twitch, and the fact that you're also 2300 Rapid and saying you can play your pieces out of order in a Caro-Kann yet still get away with it is ridiculous. You have to follow a certain process depending on the variation, and if you don't, simply put....

GGs go next.

@CIU_Ak said ^

Alright alright, let me stop your right there for a couple of moments.
Your argument is valid, for the most part, but as a 2300 who has devoted his entire Chess Career to both the English and Caro-Kann, I need to teach about some things you said.
Just because he is 400 points lower should NOT mean that you deny playing against him. He is ...

You're wrong to doubt. Wrong. I'm actually surprised that something so obvious has to be explained to someone who's not a beginner. I'm not the only one who's said this to you in this thread. You're the only one here with that opinion. I explained to you in detail why that's the case. I'm surprised you don't see the colossal difference between knowing dozens of openings and knowing just one. Which is also semi-closed, not open. And that makes remembering variations much less accurate. Some of these openings require more theory than Caro-Kann. And there are dozens of them! Of which, at least 10 alone require more knowledge than Caro-Kann! And there are dozens of them, and only one Caro-Kann! Can't you see the colossal difference? In half of the Caro-Kann variations, I play something far, far removed from modern Caro-Kann theory (and in the other half, it's simply not ideal according to it; I've simply never studied modern Caro-Kann theory; I play what I learned about 30 years ago). And this has been enough for me, even occasionally beating grandmasters (and many, many times beating various masters). There are Caro-Kann variations in which I usually play along the first or second line until about move 25, remembering the theory perfectly well (I've been playing this way for about 30 years). These are the variations in which this is necessary. And there are Caro-Kann variations in which, almost from the very beginning, I play not the strongest moves at all, but a system that suits me. The resulting evaluation by about move 10 is already about +0.8 (in favor of White). But in most cases, the game results are good for me, because this is a system that suits me, although it is far from the strongest modern theory. I am almost completely uninterested in this topic, I suggest we end our discussion of it.

@CIU_Ak

You missed my main point: that there are many lively, open, variations of e4 e5. And "bland" is subjective. The majority of the chess world conflates bland with positional, and thus the Caro-Kann could be considered "bland".

By the way, e5 is played in more than thrice the number of master games compared to c6. Draw rates...another matter entirely.

"But out of all of them, the one that will actually help your elo the most is the Caro-Kann"

Maybe this was true for you. But if it was indeed a general truth, everyone would be playing the Caro-Kann.