Invisible Pieces: Women in Chess

@Darth_Stapler

Let me help you out here for a second since you are beating up on a straw man right there:

Forcing equality and saying anything unequal is the result of oppression? -> VERY reminiscent of communist ideology / Marxism

See, things make a lot more sense when you don't pretend you start with the moral high ground

Wait, what? Since when did communism become a bad thing? I thought the devil was capitalism!

https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/blog-X9i1gRUAAJzOKpd0?page=46#465

Are you then seriously implying that black people are not represented in the top10, top50 because black persons are less clever? Either you fail at sarcasm as you've failed throughout this thread (and probably life), or you're racist. Be kind and see yourself out.

#465

If you'd please explain the logic behind comparing the # of players from each gender in each rating span to the whole "population" when the point they are trying to make is how the genders, who are not equally represented in the population, fair.

You have 10 apple plantations and 10.000 orange plantations. 5 of the apple ones are organic and tasty, 1000 of the orange ones are organic and tasty. 50% of the apple places in your area have organic apples... only 10% of the orange places...
And yet 5/10010=0,0..% have organic apples compared to... fruit. So it should be more difficult to find organic apples after all...?
OK it's clear then. I'll eat a big mac.

I'm not a statistician, however, and I am not trying to be ironic, I'm just "translating" the problem to make my point. Because it otherwise would make some sense to compare all humans, since that's what the article is about, namely that there are no cognitive (dis/)advantages to any of the genders.

Good-written article, it speaks of serious issues and the way we, men, are many times disrespectful. It makes some statements that are tendentious, probably out of understandable emotions of the author. The neurological (and psychological) part assumes some currently discussed theories as 'true' or 'false'. Here u have some links to deepen the topic on the differences between males and females.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxfaE-gWZ9I&ab_channel=HowToAcademy - Debate between quoted Gina Rippon and Simon Baron Cohen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU&ab_channel=JordanBPeterson - Jordan Peterson's conversation with a guy who was sacked from google on correctness basis, more important here are the links to research below, I recommand to anybody who is seriously interested in the topic.

#468
#469

My sole point is that there is no such thing as oppression against female chess players.
To understand what oppression means you have to get out of your comfy little zone and go live in Saudi Arabia as a woman (or even as a man for that matters) for a day.

Now, why are women under-represented in chess? I don't know but I know that when I taught chess to my 4 nephews/nieces (2 girls and 2 boys) only the boys wanted to play, the girls were not interested at all, no oppression, absolute freedom, they choose to pursue other fun things.

On the higher level, however, I believe the testosterone explanation (see above) is very plausible. Men are naturally selected to be savage barbarians that can, on average, tolerate more pain than women.

The BLM thing is just a shoutout to the previous political thread by @Lichess, nothing subtle there.
Also, I am a black guy myself, so I can't even be racist lol.

@nyangao
#469

if you're referring to my post (#464), I calculated rating range proportions for men and women separately and then compared these proportions. So I was looking at apples and oranges (which are kind of loaded terms in this context, because it brings to mind a saying that implies that these are different by nature) separately and not with regards to the entire combined population. In your example that would be a comparison between organic apple ratio and organic orange ratio for different definitions of where organic starts. At no point did I consider the ratio of organic apples to overall fruit compared with the ratio of organic oranges to overall number of fruit.

For example, based on the numbers in the infographic in #459, in 2019 there were 452 women rated 2300 Elo or above out of a total number of 33302 women, corresponding to a ratio of 0.014 or 1.4%. There were also 13066 men rated 2300 Elo or above out of a total number of 310066 men, corresponding to a ratio of 0.042 or 4.2%. That is, unless I miscalculated.

These numbers show a difference. This does not answer the question why this difference exists and it certainly doesn't prove that this is a difference by nature. There are other reasons that can explain why the ratio differs and they may very well be related to a toxic and sexist environment in the chess community as described in the article. For example, this sexist environment may influence how long people keep on playing or what kind of training they receive.

Or perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at?

#471 Black people can be racist too.
racism
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noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

#465 that is not the point of this discussion.
#466 stop it with the redbaiting