Chess is one of easiest things in category "hard stuff"

Uhh.... what were we talking about?

Seems like, as expected, there are a lot of chess affectionate radicalists here. There's no point in calling "chess is hard" without a proper context or criterion or any actual reasoning or evidence in comparison to.. something like, idk, math?

there are levels to each skill. For something like math, the lowest level is arithmetic, 2x2=4, 1+1 = 2, and so on. Then, for something like chess, the highest level is Grandmaster - 20 line opening prep, 10 lines of calculation, intricate rook endgames, etc.
If you compare the lowest level of math to the highest level of chess, of course highest level of chess is harder, but it's unfair because you're comparing lowest level of one thing to highest level of another.

If you compare highest level of math, something like fields medal to grandmasters, then thats fair because you're comparing highest with highest.

If you compare the absoulute median, and how hard it is to reach that, then that could also be fair with be a bit of nuance.

If you just say "chess is harder than everything!" without reasoning or logic, then there's a problem....

Uhh.... what were we talking about? Seems like, as expected, there are a lot of chess affectionate radicalists here. There's no point in calling "chess is hard" without a proper context or criterion or any actual reasoning or evidence in comparison to.. something like, idk, math? there are levels to each skill. For something like math, the lowest level is arithmetic, 2x2=4, 1+1 = 2, and so on. Then, for something like chess, the highest level is Grandmaster - 20 line opening prep, 10 lines of calculation, intricate rook endgames, etc. If you compare the lowest level of math to the highest level of chess, of course highest level of chess is harder, but it's unfair because you're comparing lowest level of one thing to highest level of another. If you compare highest level of math, something like fields medal to grandmasters, then thats fair because you're comparing highest with highest. If you compare the absoulute median, and how hard it is to reach that, then that could also be fair with be a bit of nuance. If you just say "chess is harder than everything!" without reasoning or logic, then there's a problem....

swimmerBill

FWIW, I do chess and math. My serious opinion is that it doesnt matter which is harder since both are harder than I am smart. If it's a non-serious discussion over beer, I'd argue either side.

Although both are analytical and reward efficient thinking, they are different enough that comparison is not really possible (that's why it's a good beer discussion.) Chess has time limits and more information that processable under them. In math (research) a pretty good person will fail 363 days/year and figure out something correctly 2 days. That's related to not having time constraints.

The problem with both is that it is difficult to be really good at both chess and math at the same time as having a balanced life with stability, risk, adventure, lots of people who you care for and care for you ... At some point, you need to decide how to balance your time, effort, focus, ... between them based on where you aim for on the scale dilettant <---> proficient.

OTOH, as best I recall (and paraphrasing) von Neumann said "If you think math is hard, you dont know much about people."

-Bill

FWIW, I do chess and math. My serious opinion is that it doesnt matter which is harder since both are harder than I am smart. If it's a non-serious discussion over beer, I'd argue either side. Although both are analytical and reward efficient thinking, they are different enough that comparison is not really possible (that's why it's a good beer discussion.) Chess has time limits and more information that processable under them. In math (research) a pretty good person will fail 363 days/year and figure out something correctly 2 days. That's related to not having time constraints. The problem with both is that it is difficult to be really good at both chess and math at the same time as having a balanced life with stability, risk, adventure, lots of people who you care for and care for you ... At some point, you need to decide how to balance your time, effort, focus, ... between them based on where you aim for on the scale dilettant <---> proficient. OTOH, as best I recall (and paraphrasing) von Neumann said "If you think math is hard, you dont know much about people." -Bill

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