Hey @an7cplayingchess
I have now released a new model taking into account player ratings and with the additional data. It's far better. Stats:
More details on the new improved model:
| | v1: first ML model | v2: today |
|---|
| Picks the cheater over an honest player* | 79% | 93% |
| Cheaters flagged (score of 50% or more) | 60% | 67% |
| Honest players flagged | 18% | 4% |
| Honest players rated 2200+ flagged | 32% | 5% |
| Honest players scored "High" (70% or more) | 5.2% | 0.9% |
| Cheaters scored "High" | 32% | 51% |
*Take one cheater and one honest player at random. This is how often the cheater gets the higher score (ROC AUC).
Score on the game you provided:
Link: https://chesscheatdetector.com/analysis/6n7zPH
More details on the new model: https://chesscheatdetector.com/blog/chess-cheat-detector-v2
Hey @an7cplayingchess
I have now released a new model taking into account player ratings and with the additional data. It's far better. Stats:
More details on the new improved model:
| | v1: first ML model | v2: today |
| --- | --- | --- |
| Picks the cheater over an honest player* | 79% | **93%** |
| Cheaters flagged (score of 50% or more) | 60% | **67%** |
| Honest players flagged | 18% | **4%** |
| Honest players rated 2200+ flagged | 32% | **5%** |
| Honest players scored "High" (70% or more) | 5.2% | **0.9%** |
| Cheaters scored "High" | 32% | **51%** |
*Take one cheater and one honest player at random. This is how often the cheater gets the higher score (ROC AUC).
Score on the game you provided:
Link: https://chesscheatdetector.com/analysis/6n7zPH
More details on the new model: https://chesscheatdetector.com/blog/chess-cheat-detector-v2
@lizani said ^
What did we learn that we already did not know?
Cheating exists
Cheating is successful
Cheating requires investigation of multiple games
Cheating is harder to prove the stronger the player
So if a 500 elo player makes zero mistakes/misses/blunders with a 100% accuracy, does that mean he/she is not necessarily cheating? I've had one of those games where I had 2 misses, 0 blunders and 0 mistakes, but my opponent had 92% accuracy with 0 misses, 0 mistakes and 0 blunders being an ELO of 413. Every move he/she made was like (or better than) a GM playing a student. To me, that's a classic sign of cheating, especially with the match only lasting 17 moves... It was one match I thought I was doing pretty well, right up to the point where it seemed he/she made the perfect move every time (after analyzing the match). FYI, that player had 25 matches up to the point, With that, over time and several reports of possible cheating, that person gets (or in this case got) banned from the platform. I could put his/her player ID, but I feel that would be wrong to do since it is from chess.com and not this platform.
The only reason it would be hard to prove a person was cheating (use of Stockfish or other means) is due to the fact that anyone with multiple monitors and a separate chess related engine browser open can do it relatively easy, with minimal time lost depending on the match mode. I'm sure with a 3 min blitz match, it's pretty difficult to pull it off, but a standard match would be fairly easier to cheat.
IMO, cheating at any game just shows the opposing player is weak. These are the same people that will never player over the board because they have nothing to help them decide what move to make. I make mistakes all the time with a few blunders here and there, but I will never cheat because there is no value in it. If I blunder and you capitalize on it, that's on me, it's part of the game. However, to constantly make perfect moves every step during the game (not being a GM), that's highly suspicious and a high likelihood of cheating (in online play) with an ELO rating of 413 for example...
Is cheating addressed in online platforms? Yes; Is it addressed immediately? More than likely not, because a single game doesn't provide the evidence needed. It may take several matches to determine if a person is cheating or not, and that would depend on how many times an individual is flagged/reported by other players. There are, I'm sure, several indicators that would indicate it. Probably way to much to list here, but as a community that is for fair play, reporting suspicious play is a must.
As a whole, it is the community that makes the games fair or not. It may seem like 100,000 - 150,000 players that have been banned from a single online service is a lot, but that's only about 1 - 2% of all players and I believe these online platforms do a good job at weeding out the cheaters. It just sucks when you happen to run across one. Good players are good, even great at times. Great players (such as Magnus Carlson, Levy aka Gotham Chess, and several others) are, well, great players. Even low ranked players like myself have great moments, even with a miss or mistake here and there. Cheaters never win, just remember that. Don't take it as a loss if you run across one. Now if the community can just get these online providers to erase any lost matches due to a cheater, that would be great, especially if you are the type of person that loves your win/lose ratio..
@lizani said [^](/forum/redirect/post/R75AVWUp)
> What did we learn that we already did not know?
> Cheating exists
> Cheating is successful
> Cheating requires investigation of multiple games
> Cheating is harder to prove the stronger the player
So if a 500 elo player makes zero mistakes/misses/blunders with a 100% accuracy, does that mean he/she is not necessarily cheating? I've had one of those games where I had 2 misses, 0 blunders and 0 mistakes, but my opponent had 92% accuracy with 0 misses, 0 mistakes and 0 blunders being an ELO of 413. Every move he/she made was like (or better than) a GM playing a student. To me, that's a classic sign of cheating, especially with the match only lasting 17 moves... It was one match I thought I was doing pretty well, right up to the point where it seemed he/she made the perfect move every time (after analyzing the match). FYI, that player had 25 matches up to the point, With that, over time and several reports of possible cheating, that person gets (or in this case got) banned from the platform. I could put his/her player ID, but I feel that would be wrong to do since it is from chess.com and not this platform.
The only reason it would be hard to prove a person was cheating (use of Stockfish or other means) is due to the fact that anyone with multiple monitors and a separate chess related engine browser open can do it relatively easy, with minimal time lost depending on the match mode. I'm sure with a 3 min blitz match, it's pretty difficult to pull it off, but a standard match would be fairly easier to cheat.
IMO, cheating at any game just shows the opposing player is weak. These are the same people that will never player over the board because they have nothing to help them decide what move to make. I make mistakes all the time with a few blunders here and there, but I will never cheat because there is no value in it. If I blunder and you capitalize on it, that's on me, it's part of the game. However, to constantly make perfect moves every step during the game (not being a GM), that's highly suspicious and a high likelihood of cheating (in online play) with an ELO rating of 413 for example...
Is cheating addressed in online platforms? Yes; Is it addressed immediately? More than likely not, because a single game doesn't provide the evidence needed. It may take several matches to determine if a person is cheating or not, and that would depend on how many times an individual is flagged/reported by other players. There are, I'm sure, several indicators that would indicate it. Probably way to much to list here, but as a community that is for fair play, reporting suspicious play is a must.
As a whole, it is the community that makes the games fair or not. It may seem like 100,000 - 150,000 players that have been banned from a single online service is a lot, but that's only about 1 - 2% of all players and I believe these online platforms do a good job at weeding out the cheaters. It just sucks when you happen to run across one. Good players are good, even great at times. Great players (such as Magnus Carlson, Levy aka Gotham Chess, and several others) are, well, great players. Even low ranked players like myself have great moments, even with a miss or mistake here and there. Cheaters never win, just remember that. Don't take it as a loss if you run across one. Now if the community can just get these online providers to erase any lost matches due to a cheater, that would be great, especially if you are the type of person that loves your win/lose ratio..
This loser stole my idea and to some degree the very design of my website.
My website - https://chess-cheat-detection.com/, created in July
His website - https://chesscheatdetector.com/, created 2 months after mine (detectOr, lol)
He even stole entire sections, blatantly, with minimal alteration, like for example:
chess cheat detection - faq page on july 26 - What actually raises suspicion***
Matching the engine's top move too often in genuinely hard positions, not recaptures or opening theory.
Mistakes far smaller than the player's rating predicts.
Flat move timing: no extra thinking on hard moves, the same pace no matter the position.
chess cheat detectOr - on september 28 - How to Tell If Someone Is Cheating on Lichess
Engine moves in genuinely difficult positions
Play far above the player's rating
Move timing that doesn't fit the position
I ran into his website by accident like a month ago, wrote to him about it, he just played dumb, lol.
My plan was, and still is to wait like a year, to gather some relevant data on the players reported via my website and the percentage that was banned, and create a blog post about it. Sad to see losers doing stuff like this.
Original post on chesscom - https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/a-couple-of-days-stuck-in-the-bad-sport-pool-got-me-weirdly-obsessed-with-spotting-cheaters?page=1
This loser stole my idea and to some degree the very design of my website.
***My website*** - https://chess-cheat-detection.com/, created in July
***His website*** - https://chesscheatdetector.com/, created 2 months after mine (detectOr, lol)
He even stole entire sections, blatantly, with minimal alteration, like for example:
***chess cheat detection*** - faq page on july 26 - What actually raises suspicion***
Matching the engine's top move too often in genuinely hard positions, not recaptures or opening theory.
Mistakes far smaller than the player's rating predicts.
Flat move timing: no extra thinking on hard moves, the same pace no matter the position.
***chess cheat detectOr - on september 28 - How to Tell If Someone Is Cheating on Lichess***
Engine moves in genuinely difficult positions
Play far above the player's rating
Move timing that doesn't fit the position
-------------
I ran into his website by accident like a month ago, wrote to him about it, he just played dumb, lol.
My plan was, and still is to wait like a year, to gather some relevant data on the players reported via my website and the percentage that was banned, and create a blog post about it. Sad to see losers doing stuff like this.
Original post on chesscom - https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/a-couple-of-days-stuck-in-the-bad-sport-pool-got-me-weirdly-obsessed-with-spotting-cheaters?page=1
I've used the OP's site a few times so I can say quite confidently your idea, @nadmudrivac, is very basic compared to his (and it's not even finished).
Lichess insights does what you do in a local browser without matching against a few red flag behaviors. Once the OP's site becomes capable of analyzing whole profiles it will become even more clear why his ML method makes such a huge difference here.
I've used the OP's site a few times so I can say quite confidently your idea, @nadmudrivac, is very basic compared to his (and it's not even finished).
Lichess insights does what you do in a local browser without matching against a few red flag behaviors. Once the OP's site becomes capable of analyzing whole profiles it will become even more clear why his ML method makes such a huge difference here.
@nadmudrivac said ^
This loser stole my idea and to some degree the very design of my website.
you came up with the idea of detecting cheaters? or maybe you came up with the idea of websites?
did you also invent chess?
I wouldn't send such a snarky reply if you hadn't called them a loser. there's no need for ad hominems
@nadmudrivac said [^](/forum/redirect/post/vt3fqwRF)
> This loser stole my idea and to some degree the very design of my website.
you came up with the idea of detecting cheaters? or maybe you came up with the idea of websites?
did you also invent chess?
I wouldn't send such a snarky reply if you hadn't called them a loser. there's no need for ad hominems
@h2b2 said ^
you came up with the idea of detecting cheaters? or maybe you came up with the idea of websites?
dude created a chesscheatdetectOr website 2 months after my chesscheatdetection, and literally copied phrasing and styling from my site, so kindly bugger off with your playing dumb shenanigans
funny thing is, i wouldn't even mind, if he had the courtesy to contact me about it, said he wanted to do something similar, use that and that as inspiration, but the way he did it, is just shameless and pathetic
@h2b2 said [^](/forum/redirect/post/nPKGTUCF)
>
> you came up with the idea of detecting cheaters? or maybe you came up with the idea of websites?
>
dude created a chesscheatdetectOr website 2 months after my chesscheatdetection, and literally copied phrasing and styling from my site, so kindly bugger off with your playing dumb shenanigans
funny thing is, i wouldn't even mind, if he had the courtesy to contact me about it, said he wanted to do something similar, use that and that as inspiration, but the way he did it, is just shameless and pathetic
