Opening fashion changes from ten years ago and current consensus on the Sicilian Wing Gambit? • page 1/1 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

JamesStoltz7 edited

I've recently come back to chess from being very active about ten years ago, now I seem to notice the opening fashions are different. First is 1.d4 2. c4 seems to have become a bit less popular and the various London/Veresov/Trompowsky etc are more popular, but I don't know if I'm imaging that. Another thing I notice is the Sicilian Wing Gambit seems to have increased in popularity. (Incidentally I saw that "pharma bro" Marvin Shkreli played this opening during an interview.) Back ten years ago this was one I never got around to learning what to do against...I just remembered someone telling me "take everything and play d5." And there's an easy puzzle in one of the Opening Traps and Zaps books where black checks on e5 and then picks up the rook on a1, but none of my opponents ever allow that variation and the people who play this seem relatively booked up on it. Finally Im a big fan of GM Roman Dzindzichashvili but this is one of the few openings I didn't find his advice helpful against as I never saw him do any in depth analysis on it except for a very brief one where he seemed to think the opening wasn't good at all but I am having trouble against it in my games. Thoughts and advice on all this?

lizani

Engines have made us more aware of the initative and long term compensation.
1 e4 engine will say white enjoys a small plus
1 ... c5 2 b4 cxb4 3 Nf3 engine will say black enjoys a small plus
In neither case is it a big advantage and it will favour the higher rated or better prepared player.
If white plays the Wing Gambit regularly, they'll be more experienced in the variation than a Sicilian lover.

1 d4 d5 2 c4 white got tired of system openings like the KID or Benko or sharp QGD variations. Engine may say you're better but only with precise play. Why not bring pieces out to sensible squares and play a system as white? That explains the popularity of the Queen's Pawn Games that collectively occupied a page in older manuals.

Engines have made us more aware of the initative and long term compensation. 1 e4 engine will say white enjoys a small plus 1 ... c5 2 b4 cxb4 3 Nf3 engine will say black enjoys a small plus In neither case is it a big advantage and it will favour the higher rated or better prepared player. If white plays the Wing Gambit regularly, they'll be more experienced in the variation than a Sicilian lover. 1 d4 d5 2 c4 white got tired of system openings like the KID or Benko or sharp QGD variations. Engine may say you're better but only with precise play. Why not bring pieces out to sensible squares and play a system as white? That explains the popularity of the Queen's Pawn Games that collectively occupied a page in older manuals.

JamesStoltz7

Ah, so the engines have vindicated the Wing Gambit it sounds like.

From how popular it got, suspected someone like Jobaba had started playing it , he seemed to be the leader of opening fashion last time around.

I have played those 1.d4 systems as white and my current 1.e4 opening repertoire has huge holes in it that I use a kind of schematic Old Kings Indian against any set up by black I don't know...I believe the answer to "why not" , if there is one, is there are fewer pawn structures the player gets familiar with or something like that. ‍️

Ah, so the engines have vindicated the Wing Gambit it sounds like. From how popular it got, suspected someone like Jobaba had started playing it , he seemed to be the leader of opening fashion last time around. I have played those 1.d4 systems as white and my current 1.e4 opening repertoire has huge holes in it that I use a kind of schematic Old Kings Indian against any set up by black I don't know...I believe the answer to "why not" , if there is one, is there are fewer pawn structures the player gets familiar with or something like that. ‍️

kindaspongey edited

Back in 2010, FM Carsten Hansen wrote that 1 e4 c5 2 b4 "is playable." ~15 years later, I was unable to find this possibility mentioned in Practical Chess Openings by GM Martyn Kravtsiv.
About 1 d4 d5 2 c4, GM Kravtsiv wrote, "This pawn-lever has for a very long time been White's principal way to apply pressure here."
Also: "Under the heading 'Queen's Pawn Game' lie a very diverse group of openings where White plays 1 d4, but after 1...d5 or 1...Nf6 avoids 2 c4. Some of these are to some extent move-order ploys, with White keeping the option of transposing to regular openings with a later c4 depending on what Black plays, while others head off in radically different directions. And those directions range from the reckless to the tedious."

Back in 2010, FM Carsten Hansen wrote that 1 e4 c5 2 b4 "is playable." ~15 years later, I was unable to find this possibility mentioned in Practical Chess Openings by GM Martyn Kravtsiv. About 1 d4 d5 2 c4, GM Kravtsiv wrote, "This pawn-lever has for a very long time been White's principal way to apply pressure here." Also: "Under the heading 'Queen's Pawn Game' lie a very diverse group of openings where White plays 1 d4, but after 1...d5 or 1...Nf6 avoids 2 c4. Some of these are to some extent move-order ploys, with White keeping the option of transposing to regular openings with a later c4 depending on what Black plays, while others head off in radically different directions. And those directions range from the reckless to the tedious."

JamesStoltz7

Yes thanks . Indeed there are many. I suppose I should look around in my chess books for the Wing Gambit, in fact I have a Dangerous Weapons series book that includes it. Why I have not got around to serious opening study this time around is I'm using chess for "stupid fun" when I am tired etc, and when my mind is fully charged and capable of serious study I prefer now to use this brain power on mechanical tasks. I have replaced the bad inducer motor on our furnace for example.

tpr

Here is an example ICCF game of the wing gambit: white has a hard time.

https://lichess.org/HIR3zcyV#3

Here is an example ICCF game of the wing gambit: white has a hard time. https://lichess.org/HIR3zcyV#3

JamesStoltz7

Thanks for the illustrative game tpr..

One thing I'm seeing mainly is a Wing Gambit variation where white plays a3 offering another pawn.

The people playing both seem tremendously booked up and also experienced in it likely since 1.e4 faces the sicilian so much.

Im on the fence about how much time I want to invest in getting good at chess again. Just got my curiosity up this one since it is noticably played more since a decade ago. Where did people get inspired to play it more? There must be some online video series made about it since no one reads anymore. I feel people are playing more "blitz minded" than ten years ago too. Oh well I can't be fussed really, I actually haven't done any chess stuff at all the whole day and got so much done that improved my real life.

Thanks for the illustrative game tpr.. One thing I'm seeing mainly is a Wing Gambit variation where white plays a3 offering another pawn. The people playing both seem tremendously booked up and also experienced in it likely since 1.e4 faces the sicilian so much. Im on the fence about how much time I want to invest in getting good at chess again. Just got my curiosity up this one since it is noticably played more since a decade ago. Where did people get inspired to play it more? There must be some online video series made about it since no one reads anymore. I feel people are playing more "blitz minded" than ten years ago too. Oh well I can't be fussed really, I actually haven't done any chess stuff at all the whole day and got so much done that improved my real life.

tpr

"Wing Gambit variation where white plays a3 offering another pawn"

Here is an ICCF correspondence game where white plays 3 a3
https://lichess.org/ghnMrgYX#5

"Wing Gambit variation where white plays a3 offering another pawn" * Here is an ICCF correspondence game where white plays 3 a3 https://lichess.org/ghnMrgYX#5