opening pins

tpr

"6...Be7 would have been perhaps slightly better than 6...h6 (and perhaps a not entirely unreasonable third choice would be 6...Bb4"

4...Bc5 and then 6...Be7 or 6...Bb4 makes little sense.
Steinitz used to give moves like 6 Bg5? a question mark.
Lasker warned not to pin opponent's king's knight with the queen's bishop before the opponent has castled O-O.
The reason is that a bishop is worth more than a knight.
Thus 6...h6 is the correct move.
If white captures 7 Bxf6, then black gains the bishop's pair and Bc5 dominates the dark squares.
I white retreats 7 Bh4, then 7...g5 8 Bg3 d6 and Bg3 is out of play. Black can prepare ...Be6, ...Qd7, ...O-O-O. It is important black has not yet castled O-O, then ...h6 and ...g5 would be weakening and white could attack with h4.
If white retreats Be3, then black got the move 6...h6 for free.

"6...Be7 would have been perhaps slightly better than 6...h6 (and perhaps a not entirely unreasonable third choice would be 6...Bb4" * 4...Bc5 and then 6...Be7 or 6...Bb4 makes little sense. Steinitz used to give moves like 6 Bg5? a question mark. Lasker warned not to pin opponent's king's knight with the queen's bishop before the opponent has castled O-O. The reason is that a bishop is worth more than a knight. Thus 6...h6 is the correct move. If white captures 7 Bxf6, then black gains the bishop's pair and Bc5 dominates the dark squares. I white retreats 7 Bh4, then 7...g5 8 Bg3 d6 and Bg3 is out of play. Black can prepare ...Be6, ...Qd7, ...O-O-O. It is important black has not yet castled O-O, then ...h6 and ...g5 would be weakening and white could attack with h4. If white retreats Be3, then black got the move 6...h6 for free.

kindaspongey edited

@swaritanium said in #5:

... and heres the moves: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bc4 Bc5 5. d3 O-O 6. Bg5 ...

@kindaspongey said in #10:

... When I tried it, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bc4 Bc5 5 d3 O-O 6 Bg5, the machine seemed to think that 6...Be7 would have been perhaps slightly better than 6...h6 (and perhaps a not entirely unreasonable third choice would be 6...Bb4). 6...d6 seems to be a definite mistake.

@tpr said in #11:

... Lasker warned not to pin opponent's king's knight with the queen's bishop before the opponent has castled ...
... It is important black has not yet castled ...

In 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bc4 Bc5 5 d3 O-O 6 Bg5, 6 Bg5 was NOT "before the opponent" had "castled".

@swaritanium said in #5: > ... and heres the moves: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bc4 Bc5 5. d3 O-O 6. Bg5 ... @kindaspongey said in #10: > ... When I tried it, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bc4 Bc5 5 d3 O-O 6 Bg5, the machine seemed to think that 6...Be7 would have been perhaps slightly better than 6...h6 (and perhaps a not entirely unreasonable third choice would be 6...Bb4). 6...d6 seems to be a definite mistake. @tpr said in #11: > ... Lasker warned not to pin opponent's king's knight with the queen's bishop before the opponent has castled ... > ... It is important black has not yet castled ... In 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bc4 Bc5 5 d3 O-O 6 Bg5, 6 Bg5 was NOT "before the opponent" had "castled".

lizani

Basically, you're saying you can pin your opponent's knight (Bg5) but can't handle it when they pin yours (Bg4). What happened to equal opportunity in chess?

swaritanium

im famous yoooo W.. lol im not fully sure

Rookitiki

@kindaspongey said ^

6...h6 is the way to play:
[Site "https://lichess.org/game/xRTBPBN5"] [White "Paveliev, Alexey"] [Black "Okara, Andrey"] [WhiteElo "2392"] [BlackElo "2407"] [Variant "Standard"] 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 d3 Bc5 5 Nc3 a6 6 Bg5 h6 ...

When I tried it, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bc4 Bc5 5 d3 O-O 6 Bg5, the machine seemed to think that 6...Be7 would have been perhaps...

Whether or not you can “push away” the bishop on your kingside usually depends on whether there are sacrifices down the line to break up your kings position.
Those don’t even have to lead to checkmate. The engine would also not like a perpetual check when u had a slight advantage.

@kindaspongey said [^](/forum/redirect/post/IieAHw5R) > > 6...h6 is the way to play: > > [Site "https://lichess.org/game/xRTBPBN5"] [White "Paveliev, Alexey"] [Black "Okara, Andrey"] [WhiteElo "2392"] [BlackElo "2407"] [Variant "Standard"] 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 d3 Bc5 5 Nc3 a6 6 Bg5 h6 ... > > When I tried it, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bc4 Bc5 5 d3 O-O 6 Bg5, the machine seemed to think that 6...Be7 would have been perhaps... Whether or not you can “push away” the bishop on your kingside usually depends on whether there are sacrifices down the line to break up your kings position. Those don’t even have to lead to checkmate. The engine would also not like a perpetual check when u had a slight advantage.