The Italian game: Why do you play it? Why do you love it? • page 3/3 • General Chess Discussion • lichess.org

The Giuoco Pianissimo, the Berlin Defense, the Ruy Lopez Exchange or delayed Exchange are not sharp but often decisive.

" marshall attack is a draw " thats probably only for the best chessplayers like hikaru . i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis. or did i miss something ?

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/5kbSXgSi) > The Giuoco Pianissimo, the Berlin Defense, the Ruy Lopez Exchange or delayed Exchange are not sharp but often decisive. " marshall attack is a draw " thats probably only for the best chessplayers like hikaru . i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis. or did i miss something ?

tpr

"i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis"

Grandmasters now remember 25-30 moves of theory.
Example 30 moves deep, prepared by Nepomniachtchi for his match against Carlsen:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=3172867

"i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis" * Grandmasters now remember 25-30 moves of theory. Example 30 moves deep, prepared by Nepomniachtchi for his match against Carlsen: https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=3172867

PureProgressionFTW

@tpr said ^

"i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis"

Grandmasters now remember 25-30 moves of theory.
Example 30 moves deep, prepared by Nepomniachtchi for his match against Carlsen:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=3172867

How'd Nepo do in that match with all his prep? That should be an example of talent vs memorization.

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/b4tikNkS) > "i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis" > * Grandmasters now remember 25-30 moves of theory. > Example 30 moves deep, prepared by Nepomniachtchi for his match against Carlsen: > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=3172867 How'd Nepo do in that match with all his prep? That should be an example of talent vs memorization.

najdorfplayer48

@tpr said ^

"i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis"

Grandmasters now remember 25-30 moves of theory.
Example 30 moves deep, prepared by Nepomniachtchi for his match against Carlsen:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=3172867

that is insane

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/b4tikNkS) > "i dont think most players ( including me ) can remember 20 moves of engine analysis" > * Grandmasters now remember 25-30 moves of theory. > Example 30 moves deep, prepared by Nepomniachtchi for his match against Carlsen: > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=3172867 that is insane

Toscani

Perfect play and optimal practical play aren't the same thing. Engines are brilliant at the former; humans shine at the latter.

tpr

"How'd Nepo do in that match with all his prep?"

Carlsen was obviously ready to play the Marshall and draw, so Nepomniachtchi avoided the Marshall with his 8 a4 anti-Marshall. Carlsen was prepared too and avoided 8...b4? They played 4 anti-Marshalls, all 4 draws: games 1, 3, 5, 7.
Meanwhile Carlsen won games as white with a tame queen's pawn game 6, and a Petrov Defense 8.
Then Nepomniachtchi switched to the English Opening 9 and lost.
In the ultimate game 11 and a must win situation Nepomniachtchi choose... the Giuoco Pianissimo, and he lost.

"How'd Nepo do in that match with all his prep?" * Carlsen was obviously ready to play the Marshall and draw, so Nepomniachtchi avoided the Marshall with his 8 a4 anti-Marshall. Carlsen was prepared too and avoided 8...b4? They played 4 anti-Marshalls, all 4 draws: games 1, 3, 5, 7. Meanwhile Carlsen won games as white with a tame queen's pawn game 6, and a Petrov Defense 8. Then Nepomniachtchi switched to the English Opening 9 and lost. In the ultimate game 11 and a must win situation Nepomniachtchi choose... the Giuoco Pianissimo, and he lost.

AlexasndersSchachID

That's amazing: Two great reasons to love the Italian game: The Evans gambit, which leads to amazing games for everyone except perfectly prepped masters of chess and the Giucco pianisissimo, which can lead to amazing battles even among the strongest and most prepped super GMs.