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which openings do gm use to draw games ?

@najdorfplayer48 said ^

the only ones i know is the berlin defense and the marshall gambit.

The Petrov is extremely drawish at grandmaster level.

Fun fact: Ian Nepomniatchi played the Petrov against Hand Niemann during the time when they had beef with each other.

(I guess a Russian would love to play the Russian opening.)

@najdorfplayer48 said [^](/forum/redirect/post/Qigbgbf2) > the only ones i know is the berlin defense and the marshall gambit. The Petrov is extremely drawish at grandmaster level. Fun fact: Ian Nepomniatchi played the Petrov against Hand Niemann during the time when they had beef with each other. (I guess a Russian would love to play the Russian opening.)

Chll abyss-void this guy is 12 years old

Chll abyss-void this guy is 12 years old

@tpr said ^

"The Petrov is extremely drawish at grandmaster level."
I doubt it.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2042224
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2291090
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2292583

why ? , its very symetrical and can transpose into 4 nights

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/TMi8XclK) > "The Petrov is extremely drawish at grandmaster level." > I doubt it. > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2042224 > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2291090 > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2292583 why ? , its very symetrical and can transpose into 4 nights

"why ?"

"its very symetrical"

  • Symmetry does not equal drawish

"can transpose into 4 nights"

  • The Four Knights is a respectable opening. The Berlin Variation of the Ruy Lopez can also transpose into it.
"why ?" * Here are two more black wins in a Candidates' Tournament: https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1914401 https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1916701 "its very symetrical" * Symmetry does not equal drawish "can transpose into 4 nights" * The Four Knights is a respectable opening. The Berlin Variation of the Ruy Lopez can also transpose into it.

Even Guicio Pianissimo is a transposion of 4Knigths Game

Even Guicio Pianissimo is a transposion of 4Knigths Game

@tpr said ^

"why ?"

"its very symetrical"

  • Symmetry does not equal drawish

"can transpose into 4 nights"

  • The Four Knights is a respectable opening. The Berlin Variation of the Ruy Lopez can also transpose into it.

can you explain why symetrical doesent mean drawish ? , and why does lichess opening description say the petrov is drawish ? ( im not saying you are wrong but it is strange )
Bild 16.09.26 um 14.58.jpeg

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/AFUk4Fsh) > "why ?" > * Here are two more black wins in a Candidates' Tournament: > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1914401 > https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1916701 > > "its very symetrical" > * Symmetry does not equal drawish > > "can transpose into 4 nights" > * The Four Knights is a respectable opening. The Berlin Variation of the Ruy Lopez can also transpose into it. can you explain why symetrical doesent mean drawish ? , and why does lichess opening description say the petrov is drawish ? ( im not saying you are wrong but it is strange ) ![Bild 16.09.26 um 14.58.jpeg](https://image.lichess1.org/display?fmt=webp&h=0&op=resize&path=G-usdBikG1pY.jpg&w=864&sig=9211de5177f6b984601362623867d4a3de0625be)

"can you explain why symetrical doesent mean drawish ?"

  • There is much play in symmetrical positions too.

"why does lichess opening description say it is ?"

  • Masters database:
    2...Nc6: 51% draw, 29% white win, 20% black win
    2...Nf6: 61% draw, 27% white win, 12% black win
    so slightly more drawish.
"can you explain why symetrical doesent mean drawish ?" * There is much play in symmetrical positions too. "why does lichess opening description say it is ?" * Masters database: 2...Nc6: 51% draw, 29% white win, 20% black win 2...Nf6: 61% draw, 27% white win, 12% black win so slightly more drawish.

@tpr said ^

"can you explain why symetrical doesent mean drawish ?"

  • There is much play in symmetrical positions too.

"why does lichess opening description say it is ?"

  • Masters database:
    2...Nc6: 51% draw, 29% white win, 20% black win
    2...Nf6: 61% draw, 27% white win, 12% black win
    so slightly more drawish.

its surprising because if both players have a similar position like in the 4 knight , ( this is maybe an a bit extreme example ) then the ideas for both players are the similar so its likely to equalize ? ( at gm level )
Bild 16.09.26 um 15.24.png

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/8vp6SMs1) > "can you explain why symetrical doesent mean drawish ?" > * There is much play in symmetrical positions too. > > "why does lichess opening description say it is ?" > * Masters database: > 2...Nc6: 51% draw, 29% white win, 20% black win > 2...Nf6: 61% draw, 27% white win, 12% black win > so slightly more drawish. its surprising because if both players have a similar position like in the 4 knight , ( this is maybe an a bit extreme example ) then the ideas for both players are the similar so its likely to equalize ? ( at gm level ) ![Bild 16.09.26 um 15.24.png](https://image.lichess1.org/display?fmt=png&h=0&op=resize&path=mcVJq48ua3co.png&w=864&sig=626e048bfac5ecb6c102be47d33cac29641b7d55)

"the 4 knight"

  • In the masters' database the Four Knights scores 49% draws, 26% white wins and 24% black wins.
    So the Four Knights is slightly safer for black than the Petroff or 2...Nc6, but slightly less drawish than the Petroff or 2...Nc6.
"the 4 knight" * In the masters' database the Four Knights scores 49% draws, 26% white wins and 24% black wins. So the Four Knights is slightly safer for black than the Petroff or 2...Nc6, but slightly less drawish than the Petroff or 2...Nc6.

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