if christian god existed, would he be a cruel god?

Oh yeah! I almost forgot!

Lastly, about "all knowing"...

It was decades ago when I first realized that the 'argument of complexity' was defunct.

"If God made you then what made God?" is the common charge of our lying mouth with all of its "best logic" which it can afford itself.

The answer is simple.

When we consider information, itself...

And we then attempt to imagine what its catalyst would look like, how it works, or what attributes it would have...

It would, by necessity, have to, likewise, have informative properties about itself!

Thus, not only does 'information itself' not require a catalyst...it can't possibly have one!

If we were to look at and point at something and say, "Look, there, see that? That is the Alpha and the Omega!"

This would certainly fit that bill.

People assume they're onto something regarding the properties of "energy", but its simply one expression of information...no different than +10 and -10, letters and numbers, white and black, up and down, all being different expressions of information...so it is with life within this locale and the context of energy, here, within.

It's usually only when people die that they begin to understand that it is beyond this universe, All-Alive, All-Loving, All-Powerful, All-Innocent...

...but as for "all-knowing"...

...hmmm...

That seems like weird phrasing to me.

'Science is the communication between THE information and OUR knowledge.'

Information's direct and literal ties to 'truth', 'reality', 'accuracy', are completely obvious.
They are all part and parcel.

The human being's knowledge thereof, at least within this context of life, is a bit of a different matter.

"Knoweldge" is an idea that the 'communicatee' would factor and make use of...

...however...

..."knowledge" is probably not something that is relevant to the Communicator.

Interestingly enough, it just donned on me that 'the tree in the garden' could also reference the metaphor of our life turning from persistently expressing information, into persistently attempting the knowledge thereof.

It seems to track with the idea of holding out/stealing apples from our one another, and the resulting long line of cause/consequence which that kind of selfish unlovingness would incur.

OK. Final answer. I need about a month away from this thread.

You be well, fellow human being!

@Lemontang Oh yeah! I almost forgot! Lastly, about "all knowing"... It was decades ago when I first realized that the 'argument of complexity' was defunct. "If God made you then what made God?" is the common charge of our lying mouth with all of its "best logic" which it can afford itself. The answer is simple. When we consider information, itself... And we then attempt to imagine what its catalyst would look like, how it works, or what attributes it would have... It would, by necessity, have to, likewise, have informative properties about itself! Thus, not only does 'information itself' not require a catalyst...it can't possibly have one! If we were to look at and point at something and say, "Look, there, see that? That is the Alpha and the Omega!" This would certainly fit that bill. People assume they're onto something regarding the properties of "energy", but its simply one expression of information...no different than +10 and -10, letters and numbers, white and black, up and down, all being different expressions of information...so it is with life within this locale and the context of energy, here, within. - It's usually only when people die that they begin to understand that it is beyond this universe, All-Alive, All-Loving, All-Powerful, All-Innocent... ...but as for "all-knowing"... ...hmmm... That seems like weird phrasing to me. 'Science is the communication between THE information and OUR knowledge.' Information's direct and literal ties to 'truth', 'reality', 'accuracy', are completely obvious. They are all part and parcel. The human being's knowledge thereof, at least within this context of life, is a bit of a different matter. - "Knoweldge" is an idea that the 'communicatee' would factor and make use of... ...however... ..."knowledge" is probably not something that is relevant to the Communicator. - Interestingly enough, it just donned on me that 'the tree in the garden' could also reference the metaphor of our life turning from persistently expressing information, into persistently attempting the knowledge thereof. It seems to track with the idea of holding out/stealing apples from our one another, and the resulting long line of cause/consequence which that kind of selfish unlovingness would incur. - OK. Final answer. I need about a month away from this thread. You be well, fellow human being!

xDoubledragon

Damn this thread is never going to end, well having a random thoughts about religion can create age of war debates, I see

Resurrection_of_Abel

@xDoubledragon said in #252:

Damn this thread is never going to end, well having a random thoughts about religion can create age of war debates, I see

What do you think about all the parts in my posts that predicted that you'd be convinced to add this exact point to the discussion?

Cool effect, eh?

@xDoubledragon said in #252: > Damn this thread is never going to end, well having a random thoughts about religion can create age of war debates, I see What do you think about all the parts in my posts that predicted that you'd be convinced to add this exact point to the discussion? Cool effect, eh?

Resurrection_of_Abel

@Lemontang

Ooops, I forgot the matter of miracles, as well.

Decades ago, I concluded that "'nothing' makes sense".

But I didn't mean it in the same way that our lying mouth means it when it says the exact same statement, but means it in the context of, "I can't hear you God...ALALALALALALLALALALALA...you don't exist...ALALALALALALALALALALA,"...

...i.e., "It's anyone's guess as to what's going on here! Nobody knows! We can never know! Science is the best tool we have! We can show and prove where we've made up fables in the past, and we can just assume that every peculiar instance is one such, unless our 'best guess' and analog systems of measurement can make tactile sense of it, as would sate our clearly limited systems logic...and/or...we can just discount those matters as "?" and write them out of existence. They are not our concern. We were here first, and then we invented meaning as it first requires and Observer for it to exist...and never mind that uppercase "O" attached with 'Observer', those aren't the droids you're looking for."...

...i.e., "It's the individual's prerogative to dynamically and subjectively define for themselves what the meaning of life is all about, or if it has any meaning at all...and then...ummm...so yeah! Next question?"...

...i.e., "Nothing makes sense to me. I'm confused. Does sense even exist? Does meaning even exist? Whoa...it's all so interesting...ummm...so yeah! Next question?"...

...no, I meant it in the context of "nothing" as being a noun.

As in, if nothing ever existed anywhere, at all...ever...no past, no present, no future...much less anyone or anything to assign these labels...only that...alone...would make very good 'scientific' sense.

That, alone, we can wrap our minds around as actually being an empirically true reality...except...obviously...'empirically' is an interesting monkey-wrench which tasks that equation and its probably not without meaning...as if to say..."Here. Look there. See that? That's what the lying mouth is capable of achieving when it's called on its baked-in and necessary fallacies of 'begging the question' or 'cart before horse' arguments and attempts at explaining itself...where it doesn't first get to assume its own existence and selectively start its camera rolling only at the point(s) where its most convenient, and only at the points where it can then attempt to write Me out of existence."

The idea 'nothing' makes very good scientific sense.

The idea of 'something', anything at all, even so much as an atom!?

That is already, seemingly, beyond "scientifically impossible"...

...and the idea of an observer to witness and label 'said' atom?!?!?!...

...yeah...

...that's already WAY beyond "miracle".

As far as I'm aware, Stephen Hawking both uncovered the idea, but he said it like this:

"I fail to see why there should be anything more than 'nothing'." - Stephen Hawking (paraphrased)

Of course, if so much as the smallest piece of "nothing" ever actually existed...no matter how minuscule...there would then be nothing at all, no past, present, of future, at all, ever.

(This is bore out in our physical realm when we can't find a single gap, anywhere, in between the 'something'.
There is an interesting side-track as to how this applies to 'information itself', but that's a separate tangent.)

So, anyway, the idea of watching our lying mouth proclaim its skepticism about "miracles"...is a little bit funny...given that it's surrounded by a nearly countless amount of seeming impossibilities and miracles...and that it, itself, is already proof positive of something that must be far beyond what it considers would sate as evidence of "miracle".

Its wild to see how proficiently its attempted to write God out of existence...and seemingly...its done it all so that it needn't concede its argument and admit that it was wrong to argue God.

In Heaven is no death.

While, but for God, there is no life at all, its not to say that a destructive element that would like to consider itself a "co-creator" isn't also sharing space and time within this locale.

I remember, as a child, I would very often learn what racist spit would smell like as those in my schools would be convinced to taunt, jeer, and assault me. I fought on a very regular basis and to the extent that my principle lobbied to bring the strap back.

Of course, not for those who were antagonizing me...but for me...as I was considered the common denominator that needed 'correcting'.

(I don't mean to rewrite history and shine myself in a lying light where I was nothing but doe-eyed and innocent.
No. Far from it. I was, at times, a little-big monster, mirroring its environment, or possibly vice versa, going back to my earliest memories. To those whom I mistreated, I certainly offer my most sincere apologies and I thoroughly regret it.)

Anyway, one of my favourite things was to humble my antagonists and then to offer them my hand to help them back on their feet, as I'd explain that I still have no problem with them, that we can just move on, but that they can't mistreat me any more.

I ended up befriending the majority of them, a few even were even some of my better friends...and we both enjoyed that effect much more than acting out the some old, garbage, 'predator-prey' or 'exploiter-expoited' or 'criminal-victim' anthem which the human species has grown beyond tired of being duped into performing...which obviously isn't the best that we can do...which obviously is not functional...which obviously doesn't work...which obviously can't produce or create life...much less sustain it...despite its very best arguments to the contrary...and despite its selective use of its video camera and microphone.

I don't see how I didn't go past death, but for those who have gone near to it, their ability to deny what they encountered is impossible. It is the Best News, and It is so far beyond what we could ever imagine, here, from this perspective.

They, too, were face-to-face with Perfect Love...they just haven't yet considered attempting to recognize It's familiarity and majesty in the life of Jesus...and this is, obviously, because our lying mouth has done a fantastic job of convincing us to obfuscate Him and His effect.

The idea of God's disciples dying behind their conviction in Him, doesn't even begin to surprise me in the slightest.

I get it, as do all those who've been encompassed by the Information that surrounds this universe and were brought back to life to tell about it.

@Lemontang Ooops, I forgot the matter of miracles, as well. Decades ago, I concluded that "'nothing' makes sense". But I didn't mean it in the same way that our lying mouth means it when it says the exact same statement, but means it in the context of, "I can't hear you God...ALALALALALALLALALALALA...you don't exist...ALALALALALALALALALALA,"... ...i.e., "It's anyone's guess as to what's going on here! Nobody knows! We can never know! Science is the best tool we have! We can show and prove where we've made up fables in the past, and we can just assume that every peculiar instance is one such, unless our 'best guess' and analog systems of measurement can make tactile sense of it, as would sate our clearly limited systems logic...and/or...we can just discount those matters as "?" and write them out of existence. They are not our concern. We were here first, and then we invented meaning as it first requires and Observer for it to exist...and never mind that uppercase "O" attached with 'Observer', those aren't the droids you're looking for."... ...i.e., "It's the individual's prerogative to dynamically and subjectively define for themselves what the meaning of life is all about, or if it has any meaning at all...and then...ummm...so yeah! Next question?"... ...i.e., "Nothing makes sense to me. I'm confused. Does sense even exist? Does meaning even exist? Whoa...it's all so interesting...ummm...so yeah! Next question?"... ...no, I meant it in the context of "nothing" as being a noun. As in, if nothing ever existed anywhere, at all...ever...no past, no present, no future...much less anyone or anything to assign these labels...only that...alone...would make very good 'scientific' sense. That, alone, we can wrap our minds around as actually being an empirically true reality...except...obviously...'empirically' is an interesting monkey-wrench which tasks that equation and its probably not without meaning...as if to say..."Here. Look there. See that? That's what the lying mouth is capable of achieving when it's called on its baked-in and necessary fallacies of 'begging the question' or 'cart before horse' arguments and attempts at explaining itself...where it doesn't first get to assume its own existence and selectively start its camera rolling only at the point(s) where its most convenient, and only at the points where it can then attempt to write Me out of existence." The idea 'nothing' makes very good scientific sense. The idea of 'something', anything at all, even so much as an atom!? That is already, seemingly, beyond "scientifically impossible"... ...and the idea of an observer to witness and label 'said' atom?!?!?!... ...yeah... ...that's already *WAY* beyond "miracle". As far as I'm aware, Stephen Hawking both uncovered the idea, but he said it like this: "I fail to see why there should be anything more than 'nothing'." - Stephen Hawking (paraphrased) Of course, if so much as the smallest piece of "nothing" ever actually existed...no matter how minuscule...there would then be nothing at all, no past, present, of future, at all, ever. (This is bore out in our physical realm when we can't find a single gap, anywhere, in between the 'something'. There is an interesting side-track as to how this applies to 'information itself', but that's a separate tangent.) - So, anyway, the idea of watching our lying mouth proclaim its skepticism about "miracles"...is a little bit funny...given that it's surrounded by a nearly countless amount of seeming impossibilities and miracles...and that it, itself, is already proof positive of something that must be far beyond what it considers would sate as evidence of "miracle". - Its wild to see how proficiently its attempted to write God out of existence...and seemingly...its done it all so that it needn't concede its argument and admit that it was wrong to argue God. - In Heaven is no death. While, but for God, there is no life at all, its not to say that a destructive element that would like to consider itself a "co-creator" isn't also sharing space and time within this locale. - I remember, as a child, I would very often learn what racist spit would smell like as those in my schools would be convinced to taunt, jeer, and assault me. I fought on a very regular basis and to the extent that my principle lobbied to bring the strap back. Of course, not for those who were antagonizing me...but for me...as I was considered the common denominator that needed 'correcting'. (I don't mean to rewrite history and shine myself in a lying light where I was nothing but doe-eyed and innocent. No. Far from it. I was, at times, a little-big monster, mirroring its environment, or possibly vice versa, going back to my earliest memories. To those whom I mistreated, I certainly offer my most sincere apologies and I thoroughly regret it.) Anyway, one of my favourite things was to humble my antagonists and then to offer them my hand to help them back on their feet, as I'd explain that I still have no problem with them, that we can just move on, but that they can't mistreat me any more. I ended up befriending the majority of them, a few even were even some of my better friends...and we both enjoyed that effect much more than acting out the some old, garbage, 'predator-prey' or 'exploiter-expoited' or 'criminal-victim' anthem which the human species has grown beyond tired of being duped into performing...which obviously isn't the best that we can do...which obviously is not functional...which obviously doesn't work...which obviously can't produce or create life...much less sustain it...despite its very best arguments to the contrary...and despite its selective use of its video camera and microphone. - I don't see how I didn't go past death, but for those who have gone near to it, their ability to deny what they encountered is impossible. It is the Best News, and It is so far beyond what we could ever imagine, here, from this perspective. They, too, were face-to-face with Perfect Love...they just haven't yet considered attempting to recognize It's familiarity and majesty in the life of Jesus...and this is, obviously, because our lying mouth has done a fantastic job of convincing us to obfuscate Him and His effect. The idea of God's disciples dying behind their conviction in Him, doesn't even begin to surprise me in the slightest. I get it, as do all those who've been encompassed by the Information that surrounds this universe and were brought back to life to tell about it.

Resurrection_of_Abel edited

@Lemontang

I would add, too, that the difference between "I got this", "everything is fine", "I wouldn't mind another go-around on this planet; please, sign me up for another random respawn!"...and..."Dear God, we're in big trouble, here, because we can see the scope of the problem we've saddled ourselves with (a lack of Your perfect love), and we can see the problem with trying to dig ourselves out of the hole that we're in; yet, our only solution to this problem seems to be to dig faster (attempting to employ the advice and corrections of our 'lying mouth' as to 'what now'?)"...is not a small difference...it is dichotomous.

One such example might be the monetary system, especially as pertains to examples of cutthroat capitalism.
Another might be the ideas of 'beauty standards' and 'status'.
Global 'rules of war'.
Chattel slavery and whatever garbage complications it's produced and devolved into.
For-profit farming.
Sex industry.
Sex trafficking.
Etc. etc. etc.

We can see how these ideas, these idols, and many more, are our lying mouth's contrived runner-up, consolation, next-best, best-it-can-do, carbon-pseudo-copy of the Real Deal.

I would posit that knowing that 'knowing that we're alive' doesn't equate with "We are, obviously, therefore, God".

But, I would definitely say that we share His DNA and that it's probably akin to how we share DNA with other animals, and are still completely separate species.

Also, it shouldn't be lost on us that when we plug in the answers to the questions regarding His objective attributes, we find a meaning which suggests that,"Assuming we share 99% of our DNA with God, then what would that other 1% constitute?"

And, it dons on us that where His effect is perfect, ours is not.

In our view, for ourselves, we know it as "choosing"...but in His view and for Himself, He just knows it as 'everything bending around His will'.

What do we say is the #1 ingredient for the person who wants AA instead of another bottle? What's the #1 ingredient for the person who wants their lungs to begin healing instead of another pack? By what power? By "willpower".

And where our lying mouth is vested in finding, "nothing but meaningless coincidence", and where we find its next directive for us to observe as leading to confusion and deflection (no no, those aren't the droids you're looking for)...

...this kind of matter of 'metaphysical relevance and meaning, we find, can serve as another form of 'proof' and 'litmus test'...

...both as we apply it to God, and also as we apply it to the existence of this 'lying mouth' of ours.

Further, since we have a functioning definition of "information itself"...and can metaphysically intuit that there is nothing, anywhere, where we could point at and say, "See that, there? That's nothing...and then see that other part? That's where something is 'again'."

Then we can intuit what that 1% might entail, namely, a lack of Him.

A small piece of 'nothing'.
A small piece of 'selfishness'.
A small piece of 'lie'.
A small piece of 'death'.
A small piece of 'guilt and shame'.

And...we can also then begin to observe why this particular physical locale is shaped as it is...where we're here to witness the difference between ourselves and our Creator...to diagnose the problem that we find...and to appeal to Him.

It dons on me that 1 Kings 18:20-39 seems to, flawlessly, mimic the meaning within this post.

Id est:

Our lying mouths insisting that, "I don't know and you don't either!"

And the proof positive, and undeniable truth and effect, of what only Perfect Love can afford.

Again, it is not a metaphorical consistency between 1 Kings 18:20-39, and this post, that we're observing...this is synonymous perfection.

No. God is certainly not cruel.
Yes. We can flawlessly trace, and track, with precision, all of the factors that would have us claim that He is.
Yes. If we have a problem with cruelty and its existence, God ought then become our foci, and not a lack thereof.

The idea that we're all here to experience this precise effect, can't be taken for granted.

Be they the monitor we're reading this on; be they the air around us; be they our actions; be they the objective and truthful meaning which we can discern, be they the lack thereof.

Things mean stuff and only this is what they mean...and the meaning is implicit within the things themselves and within conjunction with our ability to perceive them.

When I see us feigning to praise pentagrams and/or the consequential idols which occur when we praise this universal locale as being the "life-giver" and the "life-sustainer"...whilst simultaneously attempting to condemn the worst crimes against children...it becomes obvious that, sometimes, we have absolutely no idea what we're doing and have great difficulty in even objectively defining terms, much less telling the truth.

"We ought not live outside the context of God." - the human being (knowing alcoholic's anonymous is best)

"Whose to say what 'ought' be the case? I disagree. I think that since the most heinous things are occurring, they, obviously, ought. This is the solution and it shows how there was no problem in the first place, as our idea of 'meaning' was all just a made up fiction!

Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, you see how all ungodliness is good, OK, and necessary.

You see how 'needlessly destroyed lives' aren't actually a thing.

It all just 'is'...and we can be confident in it...because we are 'God'.

Just focus on your breathing and you can share my lack of understanding...as there is nothing to understand...nor is there meaning. It's all just life unfolding!" - not the human being (lying about how the human being wants another bottle)

It's not a small detail that we can predict its modus operandi with certainty and clarity.
It's not a small detail that we can see its effects unravel within the world around us.
It's not a short-coming that its effects should bother us, or that we should allow it to bother us.

"OK. You got me. It's true. I would like to wake up in a locale where the idea of broken trust, lack of esteem, needless war in all of its many many forms...is nothing but science fiction." - the human being

"There is nothing that you can do. That's the point. Tip your 'king' and trust in Me, instead." - God

Would we prefer to randomly awaken in a locale pervaded by this lying mouth and the quasi-problem which produced it?

Or would we prefer to awaken in a locale of perfect love?

"Perfect love is the only way. This is the only truth of life." - 100% of all human beings on planet earth

'And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed.
And all flesh shall see it together.
For the mouth of the Lord as spoken it.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z_tFJosT3k

@Lemontang I would add, too, that the difference between "I got this", "everything is fine", "I wouldn't mind another go-around on this planet; please, sign me up for another random respawn!"...and..."Dear God, we're in big trouble, here, because we can see the scope of the problem we've saddled ourselves with (a lack of Your perfect love), and we can see the problem with trying to dig ourselves out of the hole that we're in; yet, our only solution to this problem seems to be to dig faster (attempting to employ the advice and corrections of our 'lying mouth' as to 'what now'?)"...is not a small difference...it is dichotomous. One such example might be the monetary system, especially as pertains to examples of cutthroat capitalism. Another might be the ideas of 'beauty standards' and 'status'. Global 'rules of war'. Chattel slavery and whatever garbage complications it's produced and devolved into. For-profit farming. Sex industry. Sex trafficking. Etc. etc. etc. We can see how these ideas, these idols, and many more, are our lying mouth's contrived runner-up, consolation, next-best, best-it-can-do, carbon-pseudo-copy of the Real Deal. - I would posit that knowing that 'knowing that we're alive' doesn't equate with "We are, obviously, therefore, God". But, I would definitely say that we share His DNA and that it's probably akin to how we share DNA with other animals, and are still completely separate species. Also, it shouldn't be lost on us that when we plug in the answers to the questions regarding His objective attributes, we find a meaning which suggests that,"Assuming we share 99% of our DNA with God, then what would that other 1% constitute?" And, it dons on us that where His effect is perfect, ours is not. In our view, for ourselves, we know it as "choosing"...but in His view and for Himself, He just knows it as 'everything bending around His will'. What do we say is the #1 ingredient for the person who wants AA instead of another bottle? What's the #1 ingredient for the person who wants their lungs to begin healing instead of another pack? By what power? By "willpower". And where our lying mouth is vested in finding, "nothing but meaningless coincidence", and where we find its next directive for us to observe as leading to confusion and deflection (no no, those aren't the droids you're looking for)... ...this kind of matter of 'metaphysical relevance and meaning, we find, can serve as another form of 'proof' and 'litmus test'... ...both as we apply it to God, and also as we apply it to the existence of this 'lying mouth' of ours. - Further, since we have a functioning definition of "information itself"...and can metaphysically intuit that there is nothing, anywhere, where we could point at and say, "See that, there? That's nothing...and then see that other part? That's where something is 'again'." Then we can intuit what that 1% might entail, namely, a lack of Him. A small piece of 'nothing'. A small piece of 'selfishness'. A small piece of 'lie'. A small piece of 'death'. A small piece of 'guilt and shame'. And...we can also then begin to observe why this particular physical locale is shaped as it is...where we're here to witness the difference between ourselves and our Creator...to diagnose the problem that we find...and to appeal to Him. - It dons on me that 1 Kings 18:20-39 seems to, flawlessly, mimic the meaning within this post. Id est: Our lying mouths insisting that, "I don't know and you don't either!" And the proof positive, and undeniable truth and effect, of what *only* Perfect Love can afford. Again, it is not a metaphorical consistency between 1 Kings 18:20-39, and this post, that we're observing...this is synonymous perfection. - No. God is certainly not cruel. Yes. We can flawlessly trace, and track, with precision, all of the factors that would have us claim that He is. Yes. If we have a problem with cruelty and its existence, God ought then become our foci, and not a lack thereof. The idea that we're all here to experience this precise effect, can't be taken for granted. Be they the monitor we're reading this on; be they the air around us; be they our actions; be they the objective and truthful meaning which we can discern, be they the lack thereof. Things mean stuff and only this is what they mean...and the meaning is implicit within the things themselves and within conjunction with our ability to perceive them. - When I see us feigning to praise pentagrams and/or the consequential idols which occur when we praise this universal locale as being the "life-giver" and the "life-sustainer"...whilst simultaneously attempting to condemn the worst crimes against children...it becomes obvious that, sometimes, we have absolutely no idea what we're doing and have great difficulty in even objectively defining terms, much less telling the truth. - "We ought not live outside the context of God." - the human being (knowing alcoholic's anonymous is best) "Whose to say what 'ought' be the case? I disagree. I think that since the most heinous things are occurring, they, obviously, ought. This is the solution and it shows how there was no problem in the first place, as our idea of 'meaning' was all just a made up fiction! *Do you see what I mean?* Yeah, you see how all ungodliness is good, OK, and necessary. You see how 'needlessly destroyed lives' aren't actually a thing. It all just 'is'...and we can be confident in it...because we are 'God'. Just focus on your breathing and you can share my lack of understanding...as there is nothing to understand...nor is there meaning. It's all just life unfolding!" - not the human being (lying about how the human being wants another bottle) - It's not a small detail that we can predict its modus operandi with certainty and clarity. It's not a small detail that we can see its effects unravel within the world around us. It's not a short-coming that its effects should bother us, or that we should allow it to bother us. - "OK. You got me. It's true. I would like to wake up in a locale where the idea of broken trust, lack of esteem, needless war in all of its many many forms...is nothing but science fiction." - the human being "There is nothing that you can do. That's the point. Tip your 'king' and trust in Me, instead." - God - Would we prefer to randomly awaken in a locale pervaded by this lying mouth and the quasi-problem which produced it? Or would we prefer to awaken in a locale of perfect love? - "Perfect love is the only way. This is the only truth of life." - 100% of all human beings on planet earth - 'And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed. And all flesh shall see it together. For the mouth of the Lord as spoken it.' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z_tFJosT3k

Resurrection_of_Abel

@Lemontang

To the point about reincarnation, it seems to be a fact that this is the case.

As soon as we consider the human spirit to be a singular entity...
As soon as we consider that our human bodies are reflecting a particular (context of) life...
As soon as we drop the idea that each individual person came from a separate star system to inhabit their body...
As soon as we consider that the same life reflecting through us is the same one reflecting through our one another...

...then the matter of reincarnation, within this context, seems to be a concrete fact.

But then a wicked picture takes shape, where the idea of the clumsy, confused, killer, self-cannibalizing, carnival-clown, ouroboros arises.

I understand that that our lying mouths want us to entertain the idea that it create our life, and that things, 'just are how they are', and 'good was never intended for you by your actual Creator, in fact, if you think about it very hard, or not at all, it doesn't even really exist!' and 'You've actually created Him, not the other way around!'...

...but we have a bead on its modus operandi and its lies are unimpressive.

Know what is impressive?
The idea of a world without selfishness.
To the human being, this is the ONLY thing that will ALWAYS be impressive to the human being.

At no point will this lying, selfish, deadly, shameful, second place, metaphysical quasi-bozo, ever compete or replace this fact.

14 billion years later, and we still haven't yet managed to forget the Love that created us, or what its like to be enveloped by Him.

People claim to remember their past lives, and I have seen some seemingly convincing testimony that can't easily be discounted that would suggest this possibility.

But when I had a conversation about this with someone who was eager to co-create alongside God, she couldn't explain a few simple inconsistencies.

The best she could do to answer my questions about her idea of reincarnation, was to voice her belief that 'some of us are new souls and some of us are old souls'.

She couldn't explain the creation process, but upon looking it up, others have posited a giant 'soul-making machine' within this universe that pops in new souls upon this earth and also recycles souls to live on this earth again.

The point I tried asking her about was the idea that "If we're all a single human spirit, then, technically, all lives are 'our past lives' and it is not impossible that we might, sometimes, be focused in on a particular one which we've lived before, for whatever reason."

She took my point and couldn't discount the possibility.

I can't really speak on the precise mechanics about how exactly God intends to reawaken the human spirit within His locale...

But one such idea might involve us consenting to reawaken in a manger, in the year 0, somewhere around 00:00PM.

In this variation, through Him, we'd realize Heaven.

Unlike most of what I've spoken about regarding the predicted and proven, meaningful metaphysical equations...we can't be certain about this particular point...but it is entirely possible that the human spirit, consenting to awaken as Jesus, is what was meant by, "Through Me you'll be reborn," and, "Nobody enters Heaven but through Me," etc.

I don't know, it's an interesting food for thought.

It's not something that I really spend too much time looking into, because belief and faith aren't my strong points.

I've somehow become efficient with where I spend my time thinking about these matters, and I prefer to ask the questions which can be answered and proven true...not so much the questions which don't include witness testimony, video evidence, means, opportunity, and motive, alongside modus operandi.

Somehow, I prefer the matters which are metaphysically tactile more than imaginative speculation.

But this idea, here, is not impossible, and sometimes I wonder if it's a clinical resolution to the 'quasi-problem of evil'.

It certainly seems to check all of the boxes, and it certainly lines up flawlessly...

Who knows!

@Lemontang To the point about reincarnation, it seems to be a fact that this is the case. As soon as we consider the human spirit to be a singular entity... As soon as we consider that our human bodies are reflecting a particular (context of) life... As soon as we drop the idea that each individual person came from a separate star system to inhabit their body... As soon as we consider that the same life reflecting through us is the same one reflecting through our one another... ...then the matter of reincarnation, within this context, seems to be a concrete fact. - But then a wicked picture takes shape, where the idea of the clumsy, confused, killer, self-cannibalizing, carnival-clown, ouroboros arises. I understand that that our lying mouths want us to entertain the idea that it create our life, and that things, 'just are how they are', and 'good was never intended for you by your actual Creator, in fact, if you think about it very hard, or not at all, it doesn't even really exist!' and 'You've actually created Him, not the other way around!'... ...but we have a bead on its modus operandi and its lies are unimpressive. Know what is impressive? The idea of a world without selfishness. To the human being, this is the ONLY thing that will ALWAYS be impressive to the human being. At no point will this lying, selfish, deadly, shameful, second place, metaphysical quasi-bozo, ever compete or replace this fact. 14 billion years later, and we still haven't yet managed to forget the Love that created us, or what its like to be enveloped by Him. - People claim to remember their past lives, and I have seen some seemingly convincing testimony that can't easily be discounted that would suggest this possibility. But when I had a conversation about this with someone who was eager to co-create alongside God, she couldn't explain a few simple inconsistencies. The best she could do to answer my questions about her idea of reincarnation, was to voice her belief that 'some of us are new souls and some of us are old souls'. She couldn't explain the creation process, but upon looking it up, others have posited a giant 'soul-making machine' within this universe that pops in new souls upon this earth and also recycles souls to live on this earth again. The point I tried asking her about was the idea that "If we're all a single human spirit, then, technically, all lives are 'our past lives' and it is not impossible that we might, sometimes, be focused in on a particular one which we've lived before, for whatever reason." She took my point and couldn't discount the possibility. - I can't really speak on the precise mechanics about how exactly God intends to reawaken the human spirit within His locale... But one such idea might involve us consenting to reawaken in a manger, in the year 0, somewhere around 00:00PM. In this variation, through Him, we'd realize Heaven. Unlike most of what I've spoken about regarding the predicted and proven, meaningful metaphysical equations...we can't be certain about this particular point...but it is entirely possible that the human spirit, consenting to awaken as Jesus, is what was meant by, "Through Me you'll be reborn," and, "Nobody enters Heaven but through Me," etc. I don't know, it's an interesting food for thought. It's not something that I really spend too much time looking into, because belief and faith aren't my strong points. I've somehow become efficient with where I spend my time thinking about these matters, and I prefer to ask the questions which can be answered and proven true...not so much the questions which don't include witness testimony, video evidence, means, opportunity, and motive, alongside modus operandi. Somehow, I prefer the matters which are metaphysically tactile more than imaginative speculation. But this idea, here, is not impossible, and sometimes I wonder if it's a clinical resolution to the 'quasi-problem of evil'. It certainly seems to check all of the boxes, and it certainly lines up flawlessly... Who knows!

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Your network blocks the Lichess assets!

if christian god existed, would he be a cruel god?