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Ending the Boycott

@kjf said in #30:

you are a chess site. a service. maybe start behaving like one again. don't bother me with your private politics.
Yes, the primary use case for a broadcast page would be following top events, so I sometimes have to use the broadcast pages of other websites that take this fact into consideration.

@kjf said in #30: > you are a chess site. a service. maybe start behaving like one again. don't bother me with your private politics. Yes, the primary use case for a broadcast page would be following top events, so I sometimes have to use the broadcast pages of other websites that take this fact into consideration.

@loepare said in #27:

Please read this blog to be well informed about how we deal with Russia on Lichess and why your comment is unfounded.
lichess.org/@/lichess/blog/lichess-statement-on-the-war-in-ukraine/Yie1MhIA
As you can read there, we also do not officially broadcast Russian Chess Federation tournaments.

As for FIDE: Although Lichess may choose to align some of its policies with FIDE's guidelines/rulings, it is a completely independent organisation and therefore not bound by FIDE's policies for dealing with such issues.

I did read the blog, and do not find your position convincing at all.
For example, in the blog you have "Lichess will not remove Russian or Belarusian flags from user profiles. Russia and Belarus exist as countries, and removing their flag does not change that."
Using this argument, using Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan flag is perfectly fine.
That's only one counterpoint; there are arguments against all counterpoints presented there.

"As for FIDE: Although Lichess may choose to align some of its policies with FIDE's guidelines/rulings, it is a completely independent organisation and therefore not bound by FIDE's policies for dealing with such issues."
--Yes!!! That's precisely the point - lichess is a private organization that PICKS AND CHOOSES BASED ON POLITICS when to step in or not. Supposed sexual harassment == boycott; international aggression == nothing at all. That's precisely what I want to point out -- WITHOUT arguing whether lichess has a right to do it or not -- politics influence lichess's actions, and there is no need to pretend otherwise.

@loepare said in #27: > Please read this blog to be well informed about how we deal with Russia on Lichess and why your comment is unfounded. > lichess.org/@/lichess/blog/lichess-statement-on-the-war-in-ukraine/Yie1MhIA > As you can read there, we also do not officially broadcast Russian Chess Federation tournaments. > > As for FIDE: Although Lichess may choose to align some of its policies with FIDE's guidelines/rulings, it is a completely independent organisation and therefore not bound by FIDE's policies for dealing with such issues. I did read the blog, and do not find your position convincing at all. For example, in the blog you have "Lichess will not remove Russian or Belarusian flags from user profiles. Russia and Belarus exist as countries, and removing their flag does not change that." Using this argument, using Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan flag is perfectly fine. That's only one counterpoint; there are arguments against all counterpoints presented there. "As for FIDE: Although Lichess may choose to align some of its policies with FIDE's guidelines/rulings, it is a completely independent organisation and therefore not bound by FIDE's policies for dealing with such issues." --Yes!!! That's precisely the point - lichess is a private organization that PICKS AND CHOOSES BASED ON POLITICS when to step in or not. Supposed sexual harassment == boycott; international aggression == nothing at all. That's precisely what I want to point out -- WITHOUT arguing whether lichess has a right to do it or not -- politics influence lichess's actions, and there is no need to pretend otherwise.

Thank you Lichess for showing solidarity

Thank you Lichess for showing solidarity

@kjf said in #30:

you are a chess site. a service. maybe start behaving like one again. don't bother me with your private politics.
Ain't exactly private.

@kjf said in #30: > you are a chess site. a service. maybe start behaving like one again. don't bother me with your private politics. Ain't exactly private.

Very well written, thank you Lichess.

Very well written, thank you Lichess.

@Shirayukihime said in #33:

For example, in the blog you have "Lichess will not remove Russian or Belarusian flags from user profiles. Russia and Belarus exist as countries, and removing their flag does not change that."
Using this argument, using Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan flag is perfectly fine.

Precisely not, because Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan no longer exist.
Apart from that, the flag issue is a big topic that is constantly discussed both internally and in public, so I don't think it should be discussed in this particular forum.

WITHOUT arguing whether lichess has a right to do it or not -- politics influence lichess's actions, and there is no need to pretend otherwise.

This straw man argument makes no sense, nobody has claimed the opposite.

@Shirayukihime said in #33: > For example, in the blog you have "Lichess will not remove Russian or Belarusian flags from user profiles. Russia and Belarus exist as countries, and removing their flag does not change that." > Using this argument, using Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan flag is perfectly fine. Precisely not, because Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan no longer exist. Apart from that, the flag issue is a big topic that is constantly discussed both internally and in public, so I don't think it should be discussed in this particular forum. > WITHOUT arguing whether lichess has a right to do it or not -- politics influence lichess's actions, and there is no need to pretend otherwise. This straw man argument makes no sense, nobody has claimed the opposite.

This is actually what cancel culture looks like, and it's a good thing. Lichess publicly broke ties with these organizations and called for improvements. STLCC has clearly put in a mountain of effort to change, and that relationship is restored. Extremely common Lichess W, glad to see that change for the better has come from this horrible situation.

This is *actually* what cancel culture looks like, and it's a good thing. Lichess publicly broke ties with these organizations and called for improvements. STLCC has clearly put in a mountain of effort to change, and that relationship is restored. Extremely common Lichess W, glad to see that change for the better has come from this horrible situation.

@Shirayukihime said in #33:

Using this argument, using Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan flag is perfectly fine.

No, because Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan don't exist as countries

@Shirayukihime said in #33: > Using this argument, using Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan flag is perfectly fine. No, because Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan don't exist as countries

Shahade's lawsuit against US Chess is an allegation. There hasn't been a trial yet. But Lichess has decided to act as judge and jury, siding with Shahade without waiting for the evidence to be presented at trial.

Shahade's lawsuit against US Chess is an allegation. There hasn't been a trial yet. But Lichess has decided to act as judge and jury, siding with Shahade without waiting for the evidence to be presented at trial.

@d0ugh said in #40:

Shahade's lawsuit against US Chess is an allegation. There hasn't been a trial yet. But Lichess has decided to act as judge and jury, siding with Shahade without waiting for the evidence to be presented at trial.

lichess is not acting as judge, it hasn't sentenced anyone to anything. A lawsuit is a question of criminal or civil liability, not of moral standard. Lichess is completely free to decide what organizations it wants to associate itself with, and any reasonable person would understand that the moral threshold you need to meet in order to be promoted by a community website should be higher than the minimum that the law requires.

@d0ugh said in #40: > Shahade's lawsuit against US Chess is an allegation. There hasn't been a trial yet. But Lichess has decided to act as judge and jury, siding with Shahade without waiting for the evidence to be presented at trial. lichess is not acting as judge, it hasn't sentenced anyone to anything. A lawsuit is a question of criminal or civil liability, not of moral standard. Lichess is completely free to decide what organizations it wants to associate itself with, and any reasonable person would understand that the moral threshold you need to meet in order to be promoted by a community website should be higher than the minimum that the law requires.