Are there ways to win a rook instead of 1 move mate? • page 3/3 • Game Analysis • lichess.org

@aVague said in #20:

... it's because best moves make it longer by their defenition of best obvious, because they are best, consequence is that they make it longer, and there is no other way due logic rules

Well, I suppose that one can look up defenitions in a dectionary, but, as far as I can tell, "best" is a complicated idea that varies from situation to situation and from person to person (and entity to entity). To give just one example, FM Giddins once made a comment that was related to the difference between amateur and professional:

"... A typical way of choosing an opening repertoire is to copy the openings used by a player one admires. ... However, what is good at world-championship level is not always the best choice at lower levels of play, and it is often a good idea to choose a 'model' who is nearer your own playing strength. ..."

Perhaps, the more important point is that it simply is generally not practical to work out hold-out time after making this or that move. If a move like 40 Rd3 is evaluated as producing an ~-6.6 position, it is not likely to be worthwhile to work out exactly how long White can hold out afterwards, with optimal play on both sides. Play is not likely to be optimal anyway.

I do not know how the machine makes a choice if ALL of the available options are very bad, but I can say that, from a human point of view, it looks like it would have been super-bad for White to allow 49...Nf6+ 50 Kf4 Nh5+ 51 Kg4 Nxg3 52 Bxg3 Rxg3+ 53 Kxg3 Kd5. It doesn't really matter how long it is going to take to subsequently reach checkmate. The main point is that mate is achievable for Black with no hard choices to worry about.

@aVague said in #20: > ... it's because best moves make it longer by their defenition of best obvious, because they are best, consequence is that they make it longer, and there is no other way due logic rules Well, I suppose that one can look up defenitions in a dectionary, but, as far as I can tell, "best" is a complicated idea that varies from situation to situation and from person to person (and entity to entity). To give just one example, FM Giddins once made a comment that was related to the difference between amateur and professional: "... A typical way of choosing an opening repertoire is to copy the openings used by a player one admires. ... However, what is good at world-championship level is not always the best choice at lower levels of play, and it is often a good idea to choose a 'model' who is nearer your own playing strength. ..." Perhaps, the more important point is that it simply is generally not practical to work out hold-out time after making this or that move. If a move like 40 Rd3 is evaluated as producing an ~-6.6 position, it is not likely to be worthwhile to work out exactly how long White can hold out afterwards, with optimal play on both sides. Play is not likely to be optimal anyway. I do not know how the machine makes a choice if ALL of the available options are very bad, but I can say that, from a human point of view, it looks like it would have been super-bad for White to allow 49...Nf6+ 50 Kf4 Nh5+ 51 Kg4 Nxg3 52 Bxg3 Rxg3+ 53 Kxg3 Kd5. It doesn't really matter how long it is going to take to subsequently reach checkmate. The main point is that mate is achievable for Black with no hard choices to worry about.

aVague

@kindaspongey said ^

... it's because best moves make it longer by their defenition of best obvious, because they are best, consequence is that they make it longer, and there is no other way due logic rules

Well, I suppose that one can look up defenitions in a dectionary, but, as far as I can tell, "best" is a complicated idea that varies from situation to situation and from person to person (a...

No need fos such valume text, Idea is simple as it is. - if game last shorter compared to other variant, then this other variant had obvious better moves no matter what

@kindaspongey said [^](/forum/redirect/post/Jncq6lNY) > > ... it's because best moves make it longer by their defenition of best obvious, because they are best, consequence is that they make it longer, and there is no other way due logic rules > > Well, I suppose that one can look up defenitions in a dectionary, but, as far as I can tell, "best" is a complicated idea that varies from situation to situation and from person to person (a... No need fos such valume text, Idea is simple as it is. - if game last shorter compared to other variant, then this other variant had obvious better moves no matter what

kindaspongey edited

It does not seem likely to me that machine programming assigns a high priority to survival-time determination for losing moves.