Modern scandinavian isn't bad

Why does stockfish think that modern scandinavian opening (e4 d5 exd5 nf6) is bad? I always win with it

Stockfish shows +0.5 eval for 1.e4 d5 so it seems that it dislikes the Scandinavian in general, not specifically the modern variation.

It assigns the same +0.5 eval to 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 (modern) and 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 (standard).

I dunno, I like Modern Scandi, it plays fine for me as black.

Stockfish shows +0.5 eval for 1.e4 d5 so it seems that it dislikes the Scandinavian in general, not specifically the modern variation. It assigns the same +0.5 eval to 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 (modern) and 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 (standard). I dunno, I like Modern Scandi, it plays fine for me as black.

tpr edited

2...Nf6 is unplayable, e.g. here after 19 moves of theory black is lost
https://lichess.org/broadcast/fide-world-senior-championship-2025-open-65/round-7/WqK5lCq5/8x2lQqc9
2...Qxd5 is better.

2...Nf6 is unplayable, e.g. here after 19 moves of theory black is lost https://lichess.org/broadcast/fide-world-senior-championship-2025-open-65/round-7/WqK5lCq5/8x2lQqc9 2...Qxd5 is better.

mattich

@erhoa025 said ^

Why does stockfish think that modern scandinavian opening (e4 d5 exd5 nf6) is bad? I always win with it

Because white has a clear theoretical advantage. But where does it matter? Engine vs engine white would probably will all games. In classical games between strong players, black probably has bad results. But everywhere else it's playable.

If you enjoy playing it, just keep going! White needs to be pretty strong to get anything out of that theoretical advantage.

@erhoa025 said [^](/forum/redirect/post/GIFRtcq2) > Why does stockfish think that modern scandinavian opening (e4 d5 exd5 nf6) is bad? I always win with it Because white has a clear theoretical advantage. But where does it matter? Engine vs engine white would probably will all games. In classical games between strong players, black probably has bad results. But everywhere else it's playable. If you enjoy playing it, just keep going! White needs to be pretty strong to get anything out of that theoretical advantage.

Ruchi_Apaar

@tpr said ^

2...Nf6 is unplayable, e.g. here after 19 moves of theory black is lost
https://lichess.org/broadcast/fide-world-senior-championship-2025-open-65/round-7/WqK5lCq5/8x2lQqc9
2...Qxd5 is better.

Same evaluation by engine

tpr

"Same evaluation by engine"

You have to evaluate after more moves, not after move 2.

"Same evaluation by engine" * You have to evaluate after more moves, not after move 2.

BLUNDERkingTHAgoat

@tpr said ^

2...Nf6 is unplayable, e.g. here after 19 moves of theory black is lost
https://lichess.org/broadcast/fide-world-senior-championship-2025-open-65/round-7/WqK5lCq5/8x2lQqc9
2...Qxd5 is better.

"theory" ?
White spends time on move 3
black is clueless on move 10

On move 10, he makes a dubious move
Then on move 17 he makes a mistake.

You can't be "dead lost" from a 0.5 unless mistakes are made.
Also, erhoa. You are 1300, stockfish is 3900 (I think?) if a GM plays Modern scandi against another GM, then white is most likely to win.

Also, 0.5 isn't "bad" at below 2500 levels, its not something you can win with. Obviously, 2600's can press very hard with even the tiniest of advantages. But at 1300, your games will be very topsy-turvy.

And you don't win all the time, you are 1300
Winning all the time would mean atleast 1700.
You win quite frequently because of your weak opponent strength

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/4c8AFEs5) > 2...Nf6 is unplayable, e.g. here after 19 moves of theory black is lost > https://lichess.org/broadcast/fide-world-senior-championship-2025-open-65/round-7/WqK5lCq5/8x2lQqc9 > 2...Qxd5 is better. "theory" ? White spends time on move 3 black is clueless on move 10 On move 10, he makes a dubious move Then on move 17 he makes a mistake. You can't be "dead lost" from a 0.5 unless mistakes are made. Also, erhoa. You are 1300, stockfish is 3900 (I think?) if a GM plays Modern scandi against another GM, then white is most likely to win. Also, 0.5 isn't "bad" at below 2500 levels, its not something you can win with. Obviously, 2600's can press very hard with even the tiniest of advantages. But at 1300, your games will be very topsy-turvy. And you don't win all the time, you are 1300 Winning all the time would mean atleast 1700. You win quite frequently because of your weak opponent strength

BLUNDERkingTHAgoat

But yes, I agree Nf6 is far inferior to Qxd5

tpr

Here is another, earlier game from 2006: the white advantage just grows

https://lichess.org/w9bfsSKL#4

Here is another, earlier game from 2006: the white advantage just grows https://lichess.org/w9bfsSKL#4

BLUNDERkingTHAgoat

@tpr said ^

Here is another, earlier game from 2006: the white advantage just grows
https://lichess.org/w9bfsSKL#4

showing such games doesn't do much.
If i wanted, in 10 minutes I can find games where black completely crushes white with 1.e4 d5

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/5Wmsxnna) > Here is another, earlier game from 2006: the white advantage just grows > https://lichess.org/w9bfsSKL#4 showing such games doesn't do much. If i wanted, in 10 minutes I can find games where black completely crushes white with 1.e4 d5