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So many people are cheating nowadays. What happened?

There is a handy thing called "Report player for cheat" in Lichess.org, learn how to use it and you will see no more cheaters.

There is a handy thing called "Report player for cheat" in Lichess.org, learn how to use it and you will see no more cheaters.

@wasteoftime11 said ^

I did an experiment and cheated myself. I bought a ROM that allows me to autoplay at whatever rating I choose. I set it to 2200 and played some bullet games. I'm rated around 1900 so I played people around that level. The 2200 rating bot went 3-4-8. 4 of the draws accepted a draw after 5 moves each. 3 of the 4 losses, there were at least 36 moves made in 3 seconds of game time. He had :59 seconds left and I had :58 after 36 moves. Those 3 games all had the same move set. I then upped the rating of my bot to 2500, which is the max, and it went 5-0-10. All 10 of the draws were the same game. So clearly a lot of people are using the same bot at max level. It's ridiculous.

lot of people here seem to understand that anyway, but i do want to make it explicit: this never happened. it is completely made up. it's a fever dream of how a boomer imagines cheating works.

let me list just a couple of things:

I bought a ROM

you believe most people are paying to cheat? and you think they are using ROM?

I set it to 2200

there are no bots that can play reliably at a certain level. there may be some that claim to play at a certain level, but what even would "2200" be? 2200 fide is different from 2200 chesscom which again is different from 2200 lichess bullet. usually bots that claim such a rating are rated higher than the claimed rating.

The 2200 rating bot went 3-4-8. 4 of the draws accepted a draw after 5 moves each.

so the claim here is that this is a bot that offers and accepts draws? or are you saying that humans interfered with the games played by bots by offering and accepting draws?

Those 3 games all had the same move set. [...] All 10 of the draws were the same game.

so the claim is that this must be bot games, because they are deterministic and always result in the same game. which would not happen to humans. however, this is not how modern engines or bots operate. they don't play moves deterministically. certainly not the ones you can set to specific claimed ratings. repeating the same moves is something that humans do, or bots programmed by a beginner. or an engine explicitly set up for repeatability. none of these options make sense in the context of this story.

I then upped the rating of my bot to 2500, which is the max

really? the max claimed rating of the bot is 2500? and you payed for something this weak? for a ROM of it, no less.

So clearly a lot of people are using the same bot at max level.

the same bot that you payed for? you think that one is used by a lot of people? at the max level of 2500? to the extent that most of the games you played at that level were played against that bot? can you point at that bump in the rating distribution of where that bot is supposedly playing?

none of this passes the smell test. not even close.

@wasteoftime11 said [^](/forum/redirect/post/m7C7p5XQ) > I did an experiment and cheated myself. I bought a ROM that allows me to autoplay at whatever rating I choose. I set it to 2200 and played some bullet games. I'm rated around 1900 so I played people around that level. The 2200 rating bot went 3-4-8. 4 of the draws accepted a draw after 5 moves each. 3 of the 4 losses, there were at least 36 moves made in 3 seconds of game time. He had :59 seconds left and I had :58 after 36 moves. Those 3 games all had the same move set. I then upped the rating of my bot to 2500, which is the max, and it went 5-0-10. All 10 of the draws were the same game. So clearly a lot of people are using the same bot at max level. It's ridiculous. lot of people here seem to understand that anyway, but i do want to make it explicit: this never happened. it is completely made up. it's a fever dream of how a boomer imagines cheating works. let me list just a couple of things: > I bought a ROM you believe most people are *paying* to cheat? and you think they are using ROM? > I set it to 2200 there are no bots that can play reliably at a certain level. there may be some that *claim* to play at a certain level, but what even would "2200" be? 2200 fide is different from 2200 chesscom which again is different from 2200 lichess bullet. usually bots that claim such a rating are rated *higher* than the claimed rating. > The 2200 rating bot went 3-4-8. 4 of the draws accepted a draw after 5 moves each. so the claim here is that this is a bot that offers and accepts draws? or are you saying that humans interfered with the games played by bots by offering and accepting draws? > Those 3 games all had the same move set. [...] All 10 of the draws were the same game. so the claim is that this must be bot games, because they are deterministic and always result in the same game. which would not happen to humans. however, this is not how modern engines or bots operate. they don't play moves deterministically. certainly not the ones you can set to specific claimed ratings. repeating the same moves is something that humans do, or bots programmed by a beginner. or an engine explicitly set up for repeatability. none of these options make sense in the context of this story. > I then upped the rating of my bot to 2500, which is the max really? the max claimed rating of the bot is 2500? and you *payed* for something this weak? for a ROM of it, no less. > So clearly a lot of people are using the same bot at max level. the same bot that you *payed* for? you think that one is used by a lot of people? at the max level of 2500? to the extent that most of the games you played at that level were played against that bot? can you point at that bump in the rating distribution of where that bot is supposedly playing? none of this passes the smell test. not even close.

@chessmistakezzz said ^

Cheaters are untouchable, there isn't any effective solution to detect them.

It looks bizzare when a ten-days-old account states that with such confidence.

And you also means that the person behind this account has played chess for 10 days. Are you actually a GM? Is it just a label to deceive other people?

You m...

Thank you, but I'm not a moderator and don't want to become one. I've filed around many successful fair-play reports on Lichess across the years, as well as many unsuccessful. Some of the latter players were playing fair, many reported cheaters got banned later, some are still avoiding the verdict, but we don't know how many. There was also a sad case when a player was probably wrongly banned based after my report, and I was unable to revoke the decision. (The decision wasn't mine, after all.)
I might continue reporting players here and there, but I wouldn't want to be a moderator. It's too much work, and rather depressive work. Dealing with unpleasant topics for too long can significantly deteriorate one's mood in the long run, and I'm afraid that it could happen to me. I hope that the actual moderators are more immune to these problems.

@chessmistakezzz said [^](/forum/redirect/post/tq16rh6n) > > > > > Cheaters are untouchable, there isn't any effective solution to detect them. > > > > > > > > It looks bizzare when a ten-days-old account states that with such confidence. > > > > > > And you also means that the person behind this account has played chess for 10 days. Are you actually a GM? Is it just a label to deceive other people? > > > > You m... Thank you, but I'm not a moderator and don't want to become one. I've filed around many successful fair-play reports on Lichess across the years, as well as many unsuccessful. Some of the latter players were playing fair, many reported cheaters got banned later, some are still avoiding the verdict, but we don't know how many. There was also a sad case when a player was probably wrongly banned based after my report, and I was unable to revoke the decision. (The decision wasn't mine, after all.) I might continue reporting players here and there, but I wouldn't want to be a moderator. It's too much work, and rather depressive work. Dealing with unpleasant topics for too long can significantly deteriorate one's mood in the long run, and I'm afraid that it could happen to me. I hope that the actual moderators are more immune to these problems.

Hope this link helps someone , how_i_stopped_cheating_at_chess
even to understand the mindset of others may give you an understanding that will let you enjoy the game for oneself
there are games of luck and games of strategy but in the game of life we all have won.

https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1iervgi/how_i_stopped_cheating_at_chess/

Hope this link helps someone , how_i_stopped_cheating_at_chess even to understand the mindset of others may give you an understanding that will let you enjoy the game for oneself there are games of luck and games of strategy but in the game of life we all have won. https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1iervgi/how_i_stopped_cheating_at_chess/

Keep in mind: non-rated games are not automatically reviewed for cheating. And if you are perceived to report non-rated games you could be shadow banned for doing so on the whim of a mod. Yes, cheating is rampant and this service is lying to you when it says it has robust systems around fair play.

Keep in mind: non-rated games are not automatically reviewed for cheating. And if you are perceived to report non-rated games you could be shadow banned for doing so on the whim of a mod. Yes, cheating is rampant and this service is lying to you when it says it has robust systems around fair play.

Just since there was a link to a reddit post about a cheater's experiences there's actually simple math to show why it's a bad idea.

Let's make the following assumptions:

  1. The cheater doesn't always cheat (Reddit post claimed 1 in 5)
  2. As a result of cheating the player's rating is 200 points higher

This may at first glance appear good for the ego. However when you realise matchmaking pairs you against similar strength opponents it gets a lot worse. Against a player rating 200 points higher than you you're only expected to get 24% of the points. So that means a player with a cheated rating when playing honestly might lose 62%, draw 28% and win 10% that would both be horrific for morale and lead people to falsely assume opponents are cheating when similar rating opponents are always beating them as justification for their own cheating when in reality their results are statistically accurate.

However solution is quite simple since if you play honestly all the time you'll win about as many games as you lose and your rating will reflect your true strength. It also has the advantage that it makes you develop critical skills to improve that cheaters deny themselves. So even if you don't care about morality or ethics it's still logically stupid to cheat and person any cheater cheats most is themselves.

Just since there was a link to a reddit post about a cheater's experiences there's actually simple math to show why it's a bad idea. Let's make the following assumptions: 1. The cheater doesn't always cheat (Reddit post claimed 1 in 5) 2. As a result of cheating the player's rating is 200 points higher This may at first glance appear good for the ego. However when you realise matchmaking pairs you against similar strength opponents it gets a lot worse. Against a player rating 200 points higher than you you're only expected to get 24% of the points. So that means a player with a cheated rating when playing honestly might lose 62%, draw 28% and win 10% that would both be horrific for morale and lead people to falsely assume opponents are cheating when similar rating opponents are always beating them as justification for their own cheating when in reality their results are statistically accurate. However solution is quite simple since if you play honestly all the time you'll win about as many games as you lose and your rating will reflect your true strength. It also has the advantage that it makes you develop critical skills to improve that cheaters deny themselves. So even if you don't care about morality or ethics it's still logically stupid to cheat and person any cheater cheats most is themselves.

@KMcGeoch said ^

However solution is quite simple since if you play honestly all the time you'll win about as many games as you lose and your rating will reflect your true strength.

This statement is agnostic of the rate and diversity of active cheaters on the service (and if this rate is steadily increasing over time).

@KMcGeoch said [^](/forum/redirect/post/AsbXnC3s) > However solution is quite simple since if you play honestly all the time you'll win about as many games as you lose and your rating will reflect your true strength. This statement is agnostic of the rate and diversity of active cheaters on the service (and if this rate is steadily increasing over time).

Here are a few related terms that explain what has happened to chess players. They started to do this to chess in forums:

Quote-mining : selecting a fragment that makes the speaker look wrong while ignoring the surrounding context.
Cherry-picking : selecting only the evidence that supports your position.
Proof-texting : more specifically, using an isolated text/statement as evidence for a conclusion without considering its context.
Straw manning : misrepresenting someone's actual argument so it's easier to knock down.
Nitpicking : focusing on minor wording/details rather than the substantive point.
Pedantry : obsessing over technical correctness when it isn't relevant to the actual argument.

Has every ones posts explained exactly what has happened to chess or has happened to chess players?
What happened to “cultivated”?

Here are a few related terms that explain what has happened to chess players. They started to do this to chess in forums: Quote-mining : selecting a fragment that makes the speaker look wrong while ignoring the surrounding context. Cherry-picking : selecting only the evidence that supports your position. Proof-texting : more specifically, using an isolated text/statement as evidence for a conclusion without considering its context. Straw manning : misrepresenting someone's actual argument so it's easier to knock down. Nitpicking : focusing on minor wording/details rather than the substantive point. Pedantry : obsessing over technical correctness when it isn't relevant to the actual argument. Has every ones posts explained exactly what has happened to chess or has happened to chess players? What happened to “cultivated”?

"Has every ones posts explained exactly what has happened to chess or has happened to chess players?
What happened to “cultivated”?"

That is an interesting question. I blame social media. Social media has given everyone a voice. In the past, there were gatekeepers. People who decided whether a voice was worth hearing, like editors, publishers, professors, standardized testing. Not all voices were considered equal or worthwhile. You could pass through the gates with education, experience, natural gifts and talents. People aspired to be cultivated because cultivated was seen as superior. (People also dressed better in public and would be ashamed to be obese.)

Once social media and political populism took over, every jackass with a keyboard or a YouTube channel can express himself, and we are in the midst of an anti-elitism movement. The jackasses don't realize they are jackasses, and they support other jackasses. So here we are in a world taken over by jackasses, and ruled by idiots and "influencers."

"Has every ones posts explained exactly what has happened to chess or has happened to chess players? What happened to “cultivated”?" That is an interesting question. I blame social media. Social media has given everyone a voice. In the past, there were gatekeepers. People who decided whether a voice was worth hearing, like editors, publishers, professors, standardized testing. Not all voices were considered equal or worthwhile. You could pass through the gates with education, experience, natural gifts and talents. People aspired to be cultivated because cultivated was seen as superior. (People also dressed better in public and would be ashamed to be obese.) Once social media and political populism took over, every jackass with a keyboard or a YouTube channel can express himself, and we are in the midst of an anti-elitism movement. The jackasses don't realize they are jackasses, and they support other jackasses. So here we are in a world taken over by jackasses, and ruled by idiots and "influencers."

For atleast 1 month old accounts,
They can check the way they played, right? Like if they were playing like a 400 rated person before, and then started playing like Carlsen, they can find out, right? Or will that be a waste of time and money?

**For atleast 1 month old accounts,** They can check the way they played, right? Like if they were playing like a 400 rated person before, and then started playing like Carlsen, they can find out, right? Or will that be a waste of time and money?

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