On the gleeful subversion of lichess ToS in the Off-Topic section (or: the clousems annual mod rant)

@Chesseliho @Noflaps
First, since you both raised this issue, let me clarify my problem with allowing spam.

I agree that spam, in and of itself, is not the largest issue facing mods. I think I mentioned that earlier. I am not saying we need the moderators to become the gestapo, banning anyone who makes a post that looks spam-adjacent. I think a helpful comment here or there from someone with a mod icon is enough.
The problem emerges when we run into waves of spam topics that push out all legitimate conversation. That is my biggest concern. You can't ignore spam when the first 10 topics are just kids shitposting.

Funnily enough, back in the day, there was a series of threads called Inane and Pointless which, while initially a parody, turned into a chat/spam quarantine. Ironically, one of the few ways to get a mods attention is to make a thread entitled "I&P", as it will be banned for being spam in no time flat.

That brings me to another problem, which is that the moderators apparently don't have a good idea of what qualifies as "spam". If spam is something that needs to be purged, and a thread about making a story with song lyrics or a casual open chat fall into this category, then why is it that threads like that "animals" one aren't considered objectionable? Did @morphyms1817 shoot thibault's dog or something? It feels like rules are being applied arbitrarily and in a way contrary to their purpose.

Now, for individual responses:
@Chesseliho The normalization is in the fact that it's becoming commonplace to see people totally ignoring the rules, and I didn't investigate closely into the reason for the alts; if it is indeed a function of widespread ban-evasion, that's really bad.

As for the rest of what you said, a lot of that is based on what I've seen. I have seen this section devolve into absolute batshit anarchy (notably during covid). The closing of the off-topic section is not a new idea, and I hope it doesn't come to that, but it's not a good idea to have an unmoderated forum on a site frequented by children. The points about either enforcing or updating the ToS is both common sense and important for allowing the users to know what is expected of them and what they can expect on the site.

As for the public shaming: if a user violates fair play policy, then makes a new account to evade the ban, then brags about it, I don't think they have shame. (I also don't really care anyways, because they deserve to be called out so others know not to play them).

(By the way, if you keep your group chat in a single thread, I don't have nearly as much of a problem with it. I'd like to reiterate that the best way to do this is in a team, though.)

@Noflaps

This is not a politics thread

Making an alt to evade a chatban is bad enough, but it's much worse when avoiding playbans becomes tolerated.

I have noticed the rampant spamming in the OT. I click on the off topic and read the spam titles. I find something else to spend my time.

Which recently has included episodes of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. Oh, I mean the old stuff from the 70s'. Marlon Perkins and Jim Fowler.

@clousems said [^](/forum/redirect/post/87kCShzO) > @Chesseliho @Noflaps > First, since you both raised this issue, let me clarify my problem with allowing spam. > > I agree that spam, in and of itself, is not the largest issue facing mods. I think I mentioned that earlier. I am not saying we need the moderators to become the gestapo, banning anyone who makes a post that looks spam-adjacent. I think a helpful comment here or there from someone with a mod icon is enough. > The problem emerges when we run into waves of spam topics that push out all legitimate conversation. That is my biggest concern. You can't ignore spam when the first 10 topics are just kids shitposting. > > Funnily enough, back in the day, there was a series of threads called Inane and Pointless which, while initially a parody, turned into a chat/spam quarantine. Ironically, one of the few ways to get a mods attention is to make a thread entitled "I&P", as it *will* be banned for being spam in no time flat. > > That brings me to another problem, which is that the moderators apparently don't have a good idea of what qualifies as "spam". If spam is something that needs to be purged, and a thread about making a story with song lyrics or a casual open chat fall into this category, then why is it that threads like that "animals" one aren't considered objectionable? Did @morphyms1817 shoot thibault's dog or something? It feels like rules are being applied arbitrarily and in a way contrary to their purpose. > --------------------------------------------- > Now, for individual responses: > @Chesseliho The normalization is in the fact that it's becoming commonplace to see people totally ignoring the rules, and I didn't investigate closely into the reason for the alts; if it is indeed a function of widespread ban-evasion, that's really bad. > > As for the rest of what you said, a lot of that is based on what I've seen. I have seen this section devolve into absolute batshit anarchy (notably during covid). The closing of the off-topic section is not a new idea, and I hope it doesn't come to that, but it's not a good idea to have an unmoderated forum on a site frequented by children. The points about either enforcing or updating the ToS is both common sense and important for allowing the users to know what is expected of them and what they can expect on the site. > > As for the public shaming: if a user violates fair play policy, then makes a new account to evade the ban, then brags about it, I don't think they have shame. (I also don't really care anyways, because they deserve to be called out so others know not to play them). > > (By the way, if you keep your group chat in a single thread, I don't have nearly as much of a problem with it. I'd like to reiterate that the best way to do this is in a team, though.) > -------------------------- > @Noflaps > 1) This is not a politics thread > 2) Making an alt to evade a chatban is bad enough, but it's much worse when avoiding playbans becomes tolerated. I have noticed the rampant spamming in the OT. I click on the off topic and read the spam titles. I find something else to spend my time. Which recently has included episodes of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. Oh, I mean the old stuff from the 70s'. Marlon Perkins and Jim Fowler.

Your network blocks the Lichess assets!