Republican candidates abandon Trump

"sheer idiocy" <--- Yet another logical, objective, substantive argument, focusing on issues and not personal affront?

"It remains that the Iran war is illegal, unconstitutional, unjust, and not useful, and has driven oil prizes up."

^--- In your opinion. Apparently unsupported by the decision of any court actually knowledgeable about American law and having jurisdiction.

Yet, without unnecessary, unusual, weirdly-high enrichment of Uranium, nothing had to happen at all. There'd be no need to make excuses for the enrichment, either. There would simply be peace, and a lot of money could have been saved to help out citizens under stress.

You're right about "oil prices" though. They WERE driven up somewhat (they've been higher before), temporarily, when Iran reportedly launched attacks on disinterested, nonmilitary vessels in international waters and, for a time, impeded traffic through the strait.

I can hardly wait to learn of my "inaccuracies" and "illogic" and "idiocy." I haven't mentioned anything overtly mathematical, so I suppose not all the insults will be available, unless somebody gets creative.

Oh, wait! I suppose the "ordering" of two real numbers -- the current oil price per barrel and the historical record -- could be considered "mathematical." However, I believe even brief research (if done) will reveal the accuracy of my ordering -- so even a veiled insult will be difficult to create.

"sheer idiocy" <--- Yet another logical, objective, substantive argument, focusing on issues and not personal affront? ------------------------------------------------------ "It remains that the Iran war is illegal, unconstitutional, unjust, and not useful, and has driven oil prizes up." ^--- In your opinion. Apparently unsupported by the decision of any court actually knowledgeable about American law and having jurisdiction. Yet, without unnecessary, unusual, weirdly-high enrichment of Uranium, nothing had to happen at all. There'd be no need to make excuses for the enrichment, either. There would simply be peace, and a lot of money could have been saved to help out citizens under stress. You're right about "oil prices" though. They WERE driven up somewhat (they've been higher before), temporarily, when Iran reportedly launched attacks on disinterested, nonmilitary vessels in international waters and, for a time, impeded traffic through the strait. --------------------------------- I can hardly wait to learn of my "inaccuracies" and "illogic" and "idiocy." I haven't mentioned anything overtly mathematical, so I suppose not all the insults will be available, unless somebody gets creative. Oh, wait! I suppose the "ordering" of two real numbers -- the current oil price per barrel and the historical record -- could be considered "mathematical." However, I believe even brief research (if done) will reveal the accuracy of my ordering -- so even a veiled insult will be difficult to create.

tpr

"without unnecessary, unusual, weirdly-high enrichment of Uranium"

Again, Iran agreed to all kinds of limitations and inspections under the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, signed by Iran, the USA, the EU, Russia, and China. Then Trump withdrew from it. Then Iran no loner felt bound by the limitations and inspections.

"There would simply be peace."

There was peace, until Israel and the USA heinously attacked Iran.

"They WERE driven up somewhat (they've been higher before)"

Oil prices are at a record high, after Iran closing the Strait of Trump, one of the few things Iran could do in response to the aggression by Israel and the USA. Now Trump even buys diesel from Putin and suspends all sanctions to Russia.

"without unnecessary, unusual, weirdly-high enrichment of Uranium" * Again, Iran agreed to all kinds of limitations and inspections under the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, signed by Iran, the USA, the EU, Russia, and China. Then Trump withdrew from it. Then Iran no loner felt bound by the limitations and inspections. "There would simply be peace." * There was peace, until Israel and the USA heinously attacked Iran. "They WERE driven up somewhat (they've been higher before)" * Oil prices are at a record high, after Iran closing the Strait of Trump, one of the few things Iran could do in response to the aggression by Israel and the USA. Now Trump even buys diesel from Putin and suspends all sanctions to Russia.

Noflaps

edited

"Oil prices are at a record high" <--- No, I suggest you check prices in, say, 2008,or even 2022 (during Biden's term), after checking the current price.

I try not to guess, bud. And it's also helpful to compare prices in "current dollars," too. If we do that, the 2008 and even the 2022 prices look even higher! It does not remotely seem that we are currently experiencing historically high oil prices. But don't believe me -- you can check for yourself. It's not hard to do.

I'm afraid that "historically high oil prices" is just another of those things that "everybody knows," and that get passed around on the internet, but that are not true in fact. I've encountered flawed urban legend many times before, when politics becomes involved. I've already given plenty of examples of that phenomenon.

And even many words haven't yet really explained a genuinely "peaceful" reason to put so much money and energy and time into enriching so much Uranium to that startlingly high level, protected by fortifications.

And coupling such odd and unnecessary enrichment with a striving for ever-longer-range ballistic missiles -- a range FAR beyond Israel -- doesn't reasonably inspire confidence that peaceful, neighborly coexistence is intended in the long run.

Many of us would prefer a relatively short period of somewhat higher oil prices to nuclear devastation or even nuclear extortion. Of course, others are free to disagree.

Furthermore, especially since this is the political "silly season," we are seeing a lot of anti-Trump opinion, so I'm sure many WILL disagree with my own assessment! Politics and fashion are both powerful influences.

But what have I written here that is truly inaccurate? I've researched oil prices -- did I get them wrong? It seems important in a thread with political overtones to get them right.

By the way, I don't suspect tpr will insult me, in case that gets confused. tpr and I tend to simply exchange positions and substantive arguments, point by point.

"Oil prices are at a record high" <--- No, I suggest you check prices in, say, 2008,or even 2022 (during Biden's term), after checking the current price. I try not to guess, bud. And it's also helpful to compare prices in "current dollars," too. If we do that, the 2008 and even the 2022 prices look even higher! It does not remotely seem that we are currently experiencing historically high oil prices. But don't believe me -- you can check for yourself. It's not hard to do. I'm afraid that "historically high oil prices" is just another of those things that "everybody knows," and that get passed around on the internet, but that are not true in fact. I've encountered flawed urban legend many times before, when politics becomes involved. I've already given plenty of examples of that phenomenon. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And even many words haven't yet really explained a genuinely "peaceful" reason to put so much money and energy and time into enriching so much Uranium to that startlingly high level, protected by fortifications. And coupling such odd and unnecessary enrichment with a striving for ever-longer-range ballistic missiles -- a range FAR beyond Israel -- doesn't reasonably inspire confidence that peaceful, neighborly coexistence is intended in the long run. Many of us would prefer a relatively short period of somewhat higher oil prices to nuclear devastation or even nuclear extortion. Of course, others are free to disagree. Furthermore, especially since this is the political "silly season," we are seeing a lot of anti-Trump opinion, so I'm sure many WILL disagree with my own assessment! Politics and fashion are both powerful influences. But what have I written here that is truly inaccurate? I've researched oil prices -- did I get them wrong? It seems important in a thread with political overtones to get them right. By the way, I don't suspect tpr will insult me, in case that gets confused. tpr and I tend to simply exchange positions and substantive arguments, point by point.

tpr

"reason to put so much money and energy and time into enriching so much Uranium to that startlingly high level, protected by fortifications."

Fortifications are necessary, because Israel has on 7 June 1981 attacked peaceful nuclear facilities in Iraq.
Iran has uranium mines and thus wants to enrich its own uranium.
So much: 408.6 kg UF6 at 60% is a small quantity, one pickup truck and modest enrichment, nowhere near 90% weapons grade.
It makes economic and engineering sense to enrich near 50%: that is easiest.
It is hard to find a needle in a haystack, and hard to find a straw of hay in a stack of needles, but easiest with 50% hay and 50% needles.
It is also easier for logistics. 60% is easy to transport and later dilute with natural uranium.
Iran enriched 2221.4 kg at 2%, 5508.8 kg at 5%, 274.5 kg at 20%, 8413.3 kg total.
Iran agreed to limitations and inspections under the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, but then Trump withdrew from it.
Thus Iran no longer felt bound by it.
A deal is a deal. If Trump breaks a closed deal, then why would Iran still comply?

"longer-range ballistic missiles"

The range of the Sejjil ballistic missile is 2000-4000 km, that is intermediate range.
Iran can with much effort strike back at Cyprus, and Diego Garcia, from where the USA attacked Iran.
The Israeli Jericho IV is reported to have 20,000 km range.

"nuclear extortion"

Iran has no nuclear weapons, is not near to one, has issued a fatwa religious edict against nuclear weapons, has signed the non-proliferation treaty.
Israel has 90 nuclear weapons, has not signed the non-proliferation treaty and has in 1973 engaged in nuclear extortion.

I can understand the June 22, 2025 bombing being directed against uranium enrichment, but the war since 28 February 2026 is illegal, unconstitutional and clearly not related to uranium, but to oil.

"reason to put so much money and energy and time into enriching so much Uranium to that startlingly high level, protected by fortifications." * Fortifications are necessary, because Israel has on 7 June 1981 attacked peaceful nuclear facilities in Iraq. Iran has uranium mines and thus wants to enrich its own uranium. So much: 408.6 kg UF6 at 60% is a small quantity, one pickup truck and modest enrichment, nowhere near 90% weapons grade. It makes economic and engineering sense to enrich near 50%: that is easiest. It is hard to find a needle in a haystack, and hard to find a straw of hay in a stack of needles, but easiest with 50% hay and 50% needles. It is also easier for logistics. 60% is easy to transport and later dilute with natural uranium. Iran enriched 2221.4 kg at 2%, 5508.8 kg at 5%, 274.5 kg at 20%, 8413.3 kg total. Iran agreed to limitations and inspections under the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, but then Trump withdrew from it. Thus Iran no longer felt bound by it. A deal is a deal. If Trump breaks a closed deal, then why would Iran still comply? "longer-range ballistic missiles" * The range of the Sejjil ballistic missile is 2000-4000 km, that is intermediate range. Iran can with much effort strike back at Cyprus, and Diego Garcia, from where the USA attacked Iran. The Israeli Jericho IV is reported to have 20,000 km range. "nuclear extortion" * Iran has no nuclear weapons, is not near to one, has issued a fatwa religious edict against nuclear weapons, has signed the non-proliferation treaty. Israel has 90 nuclear weapons, has not signed the non-proliferation treaty and has in 1973 engaged in nuclear extortion. I can understand the June 22, 2025 bombing being directed against uranium enrichment, but the war since 28 February 2026 is illegal, unconstitutional and clearly not related to uranium, but to oil.

Jaiden14

STOP INFECTING OTF WITH POLITICS!