"Trump has managed to get done?"
* He ended the Afghanistan War in his first term, and then, contrary to his promises in his election campaign, contrary to the US Constitution, and contrary to International Law started a disastrous war against Iran.
As I've noted with some specificity before, I don't agree with Trump about some things. For example, tax cuts -- even when directed primarily to help lower- and middle-income households (who earn "tips" and "overtime" and get "social security") can be taken too far. Those households who benefited may disagree with me, of course, and vote Republican in gratitude for being given the tax break. And I could be wrong, anyway.
But, in general, Trump's policies have not REMOTELY been "disastrous." And despite endless verbal gymnastics, Iran could easily have avoided war -- and kept its air and naval forces -- simply by not overly and unnecessarily enriching Uranium while developing long range missiles.
No, I believe a country doesn't REALLY lose its navy and air force just so it can keep up, giggle, "peaceful" over-enrichment of Uranium that, as looking at the practice of many OTHER nations makes quite clear, isn't actually necessary to generate peaceful power.
No, it doesn't seem remotely likely that such over-enrichment for supposed transportation savings (one of the few explanations offered in the forum) would be remotely worth losing a navy and an air force to obtain. It seems to me there must be some OTHER (rather obvious) explanation. But each can decide for himself or herself.
But moving on: under Trump, inflation is down from its high under Biden. Last time I checked, real wages are up, not down as under Biden. The stock market has reached all-time highs.
The border is finally secure. Which will ease pressure on rents.
Many genuinely deadly folks have been removed. Which will prevent many horrific crimes. And there were many that could have been avoided.
Many of the huge number of unaccounted for minors during Biden's term have been found. But there are a lot more yet to be found. That losing of kids didn't have to happen either. Do we really want to go back to such sadness?
And massive -- really massive -- investment in America is occurring, which leads to economic growth and a large number of private sector jobs. The announcement of yet another big, new plant from foreign investment in America was made just a few days ago. Tariffs or the threat of them have played a role in generating that massive and helpful investment -- something some supposed "experts" didn't seem to take into account and perhaps still don't.
Iran's high enrichment has been halted -- and at what price? Nothing good is without price, but the constantly complained about, somewhat higher oil prices (but not a record), are not remotely the entire explanation for high prices that have been building since Biden took office. And I expect they will keep coming down, with time. I could be wrong -- but let's pay attention and see. Iran is under blockade and traffic in the strait has recovered quite a bit, I believe.
The sailors and airmen near Iran would get paid anyway -- you understand that, right? There is still a net cost, of course -- but what's the cost of a city -- one of ours or an ally's -- being destroyed by a nuclear explosion? It's more expensive, obviously. In dollars and lives.
Maduro is out of power. Venezuela is improving.
The critical minerals of Greenland are finally being adequately secured for the West. That includes Europe.
The federal government is actually trying to find and root out fraud, waste and abuse -- and it is having some under-reported success.
Somebody has managed to convince you -- and many others whose sources are apparently not telling the whole story -- that Trump's doing a terrible job.
He's not. OBVIOUSLY. But the Left want power and they'll try to convince others. And, as always, in some quarters it's fashionable for some celebrities to sing along with the Left. They're rich, but, golly, they're "fer the people," really!
Some of them even take the trouble to be flown in their private planes to climate conferences! How nice!
But who are rioting and destroying in Paris and Spain and Italy?
Here's a clue: NOT American Republicans. The world has been ill-advised for too long. And some of the same troubling forces are at work in America, too -- eager to undermine institutions and seize power.
But some just keep singing the same old song, for reasons of their own. Let us hope that too many don't sing in chorus with them. Because some mistakes are unrecoverable. And hearing some media and political "celebrities" saying "oops" five years from now will be cold comfort.
"Trump's policies have not REMOTELY been disastrous."
* The war against Iran is a disaster.
"Iran could easily have avoided war"
* Iran did nothing to provoke any war. They were even negotiating while being heinously attacked by the USA and Israel.
"some OTHER (rather obvious) explanation"
* Iran accepted all kinds of limitations and inspections under the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.
Then Trump I withdrew from that deal. Then Iran no longer felt bound by it either.
"what's the cost of a city -- one of ours or an ally's -- being destroyed by a nuclear explosion?"
* Iran has no nuclear weapons, is not near to any, has signed the non-proliferation treaty and issued a fatwa against them.
Israel has 90 nuclear weapons, long range Jericho IV ballistic missiles and has not signed the non-proliferation treaty.
@Noflaps
> Trump's term has seen some price increase too, and I haven't said otherwise. But high current prices are not generally and mostly the result of Trump's brief (so far) second term, no matter how some might wish to pretend that they are, or claim that it's just illogical and unknowing for any to disagree.
So... you're arguing that Trump's inflation isn't that bad... because the price levels were already really high when he took office? That's wrong, according to basic math. Obviously. High inflation means that the prices are growing faster than they should. That means that the already high prices are rising even faster than they should, getting even worse. If the prices were artificially high, then it should be easier to lower inflation. And if prices are already unnaturally high, higher-than-targeted inflation becomes worse. This is basic math.
Also, I'd like to zero in on this:
> high current prices are not generally and mostly the result of Trump's brief (so far) second term
Trump's in year 2 of his term. Biden was in year 2 of *his* term when inflation spiked. If you want to blame current prices on Biden because it's too early to blame Trump, the same logic attributes the massive inflation spike under Biden to the prior president. Which was Trump. That is obviously not the case-- the inflation spike under Biden was due to supply shocks caused by the Russo-Ukraine war, much like the current inflation spike can be traced to the supply shock of the Iran war.
And that is precisely why the Republican party is distancing itself from him. Obviously.
Also, the following is a wildly and intentionally misleading statement:
> under Trump, inflation is down from its high under Biden
Inflation is higher now than it was at the end of Biden's presidency. Using CPI, YoY Inflation was 2.9% in Dec 2024 and 3.0% in Jan 2025. Attributing the *relative* taming of inflation to Trump is just false advertising.
Which leads us back to this:
https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/republican-candidates-abandon-trump?page=3#Bd3kdoV1
I'm arguing precisely what I wrote and now write. Not more, not less. I'm tired of inaccurate paraphrasing in an attempt to win an argument.
The Inflation rate during Biden's term hit a number MUCH higher than we are experiencing now. That's simple fact.
And that OBVIOUSLY has something -- although not everything, of course -- to do with present high prices.
Eventually, the Fed managed to bring inflation back down somewhat as Biden's term continued -- but the high prices caused by previous during Biden's term inflation were there to stay. Trump was saddled with pretty high PRICES to start.
I capitalized "prices" because it's important not to confuse inflation rates with prices. Inflation rates can decline and STILL leave higher prices in their wake. OBVIOUSLY.
Sure, inflation during Trump's term has caused prices to rise still farther. I never said otherwise. But not as quickly as they did for an extended period during Biden's term. That's just fact. Indeed, even current oil prices are BELOW their previous pre-Trump record. Don't believe me. Check.
I've already posted about the HUGE increase in housing prices during Biden's term. And it's not remotely illogical to think that opening borders to more than 10 million new inhabitants in a short time caused upward pressure on rents, too.
Many would obviously prefer to ignore those things and concentrate on that which suits their own world view and politics.
Others can believe what they wish. But it's ludicrous, insulting, and unnecessary to pretend that I don't understand simple math. Misplaced condescension is not argument.
I NEVER said that it's "too early to blame Trump." Please QUOTE me saying this, if I'm wrong. I searched my own posts and found no such language.
To the contrary, I acknowledged that not ALL of the price increases have occurred during Biden's term and some have occurred under Trump. I don't even blame Biden exclusively for everything that happened during his term: Congress is a player, too.
But in any event, it's unfair to exaggerate the extent to which Trump is responsible for every high price that troubles us. Prices were generally already pretty high when Trump took office. That can't be allowed to tie Trump's hands from taking actions that need to be taken and might utterly crucial. If prices hadn't already been so high when he took office, anything that happened during his term would feel less painful now.
That's my position -- I am NOT attempting to ignore or deny what effects Trump's policies HAVE had. I just object to the one-sided half-truths and exaggerations that have occurred during politics' "silly season."
Arguing with things I haven't ACTUALLY written or argued is a waste of everybody's time, but it seems to happen more and more lately.
And let us not pretend that Trump's FIRST term was remotely equivalent, in terms of inflation, to Biden's term. I've already posted numbers that appear to demonstrate QUITE the opposite. Inflation over Trump's first term was relatively low.
Don't believe me -- CHECK.
Trump's policies HAVE caused some price increases, on top of some already pretty high prices existing at the end of Biden's term. But Trump has, at least, gotten something very important, perhaps life-saving, as a result. And as I've carefully listed in a prior post, Trump HAS done a lot of very helpful things, that many would like to distract us from knowing and ignore themselves.
I don't agree with everything Trump says or does, but the constant harping cries against him I find to be exaggerated and often quite unfair and either political or self-justifying. Trump's been smeared and attacked for a decade now. And some of those who are doing that have not at all helped the country.
@Noflaps
Already 20 mentions of Biden on this page, maybe its time to give up the past? If we had the elementary school playground mentality of a certain politician we might call it "BDS"
Biden is irrelevant, he's not running for office.
Nonsense, @salmon_rushdie .
If Democrats want to repeatedly complain about -- and blame somebody for -- "high prices," the fact that MUCH (not all) of the price increases that CAUSED those "high prices" happened during somebody ELSE'S term (not Trump's). That makes it UNFAIR and MISLEADING to pretend that earlier term is "irrelevant" to those complaining about, and trying to conveniently assign blame for, high prices.
We all must look at ALL the facts, not just the ones that suit our political preconceptions or desires or help us try to win an argument or an election.
Prices -- including RENT -- are high today NOT JUST BECAUSE OF TRUMP. That's an obvious, easily demonstrated fact.
We can't just pretend that away by waving our hands and saying it's "irrelevant" or pretending that math is a mystery to me.
I've already cited figures about the huge increase in the cost of housing during Biden's four years.
Conveniently ignoring the previous BIG contributions of OTHERS to the high prices complained about, and trying to blame those on only one candidate, is unfair and misleading.
But it's also quite typical of the sort of approach being used by many blinkered partisans, ideologues or ACTUAL propagandists.
Does it make sense, if we wish to help "prices," to get rid of Trump or his party and turn power back over to those who were in power when MOST of the price increases actually happened? No, that DOESN'T seem to make sense, and the question is not "irrelevant." Clearly.
It wasn't during Trump's term that the borders opened up, so that millions of new folks had to start competing for apartments, which could obviously impact rent. High rents are a big part of the challenge!
And does anybody really think many Democrat politicians are rooting for lower fossil fuel prices? Do California and New York have low fuel prices, compared to most red states?
Wut is dis and the forum was jst posted and I see 50 paragraphs....
@Noflaps said [^](/forum/redirect/post/YeBAIr2E)
> Nonsense, @salmon_rushdie .
>
> If Democrats want to repeatedly complain about -- and blame somebody for -- "high prices," the fact that MUCH (not all) of the price increases that CAUSED those "high prices" happened during somebody ELSE'S term (not Trump's). That makes it UNFAIR and MISLEADING to pretend that earlier term is "irrelevant" to those complaining about, and trying to conveniently assign ...
the profiteer in chief has doubled his wealth since the election
oil companies are set to make a record 250 billion in revenue this year
no one cares about biden
no one cares about california or new york
people care about the PERSON IN POWER WHO IS ACTIVELY MAKING IT WORSE, ACTIVELY COLLUDING WITH OIL COMPANIES MAKING BILLIONS IN PROFIT WHILE THE REST OF US SUFFER NEEDLESSLY
these prices aren't natural, even as a result of the war they're artificially inflated as an act of government/corporate collusion
Have you doubled your money in the last year?
Have your investments doubled?
Didn't think so.
That has nothing to do with the argument. It's just yet another distraction.
Giving control back to those who caused the problems Trump has tried to fix, and those who caused most (though not all) of the "high prices" many complain about, makes little sense. If high oil prices are due to supposed (an unevidenced) Trump collusion, how do you explain even higher oil prices under Democrats?
Do you know how oil is ACTUALLY priced? Most people seem to have no idea and just engage in a lot of popular, nod-along fantasy about that industry and several others.
Good grief.
And saying that "no one cares" presumes to think for everybody else. None of us are entitled to do that, or can do that, for all others. It's just empty argument.
Those who "don't care" about which states have highest gas prices SHOULD care, if they want to think clearly about gas prices. Raising gas taxes and shutting down or discouraging new refineries can have a real and significant effect on gas prices.
Yet another thing many don't care to, or simply don't, think about.