The ongoing tragedy in Palestine

"Holocaust means to kill an entire population"

• No. Not the entire population of Jews was killed in the holocaust.

"scholars call the crimes of Israel in Gaza, and the West Bank, a genocide."

• The International Criminal Court has indicted Netanyahu.

@tpr said ^

"Holocaust means to kill an entire population"

• No. Not the entire population of Jews was killed in the holocaust.

Your posts are getting more and more upsetting every day. Hitler and his fellows had the plan to kill ALL european jews, eventually all in the world.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. A "holocaust" is a giant fiery inferno. In the context of atrocities, though, I think it only refers to the specific genocide in Germany. You can't make a distinction between the definitions of genocide and Holocaust, because the Holocaust was an example of a genocide, not a different classification of event.

I don't agree with the claim anyway - at least as long as people become likewise vocal about the genocide to Ukraine.

Shifting blame is still what irks the **** out of me.

ICC at least puts the blame on both sides.

@clousems said ^

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. A "holocaust" is a giant fiery inferno. In the context of atrocities, though, I think it only refers to the specific genocide in Germany. You can't make a distinction between the definitions of genocide and Holocaust, because the Holocaust was an example of a genocide, not a different classification of event.

You are correct, the Holocaust refers to the specific extermination of Jews by Nazi Germany during World War II. This is a huge mistake and will therefore rewrite my post below.

Israel is currently committing genocide in Palestine. I have read many times that it is not a genocide because Israel could kill all Palestinians if it wanted to, but has not done so. Besides being morally questionable, that argument is wrong.

The original definition of genocide says: "Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves."

This is why serious scholars call the crimes of Israel in Gaza, and the West Bank, a genocide. It is a matter of determining whether the facts match the definition or not. They do.

PS: Israel killed 4% of the population in Gaza, and wounded a further 7%.

PS: I removed any mention to the Holocaust made in my opening post because it was morally wrong, factually incorrect and disrepectful. Holocaust is not a noun, in this context it refers to the specific extermination of Jews by Nazi Germany during World War Ii.

@Cedur216 said ^

I don't agree with the claim anyway - at least as long as people become likewise vocal about the genocide to Ukraine.

Shifting blame is still what irks the **** out of me.

ICC at least puts the blame on both sides.

The Palestino-Israeli conflict is long and complex, so overall of course there is blame on both sides. But individual actions are each own's responsibility. It is Israel's decision to respond to a terrorist attack by committing genocide. It was Hamas decision to perpetrate a large scale terrorist attack on October 7th.

Justifying Israel's genocide by invoking the killing of Israelis on October 7 is the same than justifying Hamas terrorist attack by invoking the killing of thousands of Palestinians before October 7.

So it's not a blame game here, it's about getting a murderous madness to stop. Genocide is a technical definition, and Israel is committing it in Palestine.

@m011235 said ^

Besides being morally questionable, that argument is wrong

Indeed. It is like saying, "I broke into your house, but I only took a twentieth of the monetary value of your belongings, therefore, I am not a thief".

@Cedur216 said ^

at least as long as people become likewise vocal about the genocide to Ukraine

So it's a both-or-nothing for you? The "war" in Gaza and the "war" in Ukraine are unrelated in this context; whether or not one can call the situation in Gaza a genocide, does not depend on whether or not one can call the situation in Ukraine a genocide. They are different situations with different contexts and variables, and I am not attempting to downplay the violence and horror experienced by the Ukrainians when I say this.