whats your opinion , should the german party afd be banned ?

JonSnow1998 edited

@Noflaps
Answer me this: who commits crime at the highest rate of these 3 catagories: documented immigrants, undocumented immigrants, and native born

truth is you're pretty much regurgitating late 1800s anti-immigration propaganda

https://reason.com/2025/06/18/a-brief-history-of-american-propaganda-against-foreign-invaders/

@Noflaps Answer me this: who commits crime at the highest rate of these 3 catagories: documented immigrants, undocumented immigrants, and native born truth is you're pretty much regurgitating late 1800s anti-immigration propaganda https://reason.com/2025/06/18/a-brief-history-of-american-propaganda-against-foreign-invaders/

clousems

@Noflaps I've noticed a number of your posts rely on the idea that the sources of others must be flawed (regardless of whether these sources are or are not explicitly stated), but you don't tend to share with the rest of us where you get your own information from. That is not a particularly fair way to approach the situation.
If you have more accurate, less biased information/news sources and choose not to share with the rest of us, that would just be selfish, no? It certainly doesn't help develop your ethos in arguments.

@Noflaps I've noticed a number of your posts rely on the idea that the sources of others must be flawed (regardless of whether these sources are or are not explicitly stated), but you don't tend to share with the rest of us where you get your own information from. That is not a particularly fair way to approach the situation. If you have more accurate, less biased information/news sources and choose not to share with the rest of us, that would just be selfish, no? It certainly doesn't help develop your ethos in arguments.

Alientcp

@tpr said ^

"There is no inherit right to go to other country."

There is. Migration is of all times.
The USA is populated by former immigrants, and now turns against new immigrants, they call aliens and attack with ICE.

We know that in the past, land was ceased by force. It happened way before the US was founded, and still happens today. So how the US was formed is irrelevant. Land is under their control now. That wont change.

We also know that the concept of nation was already known way before the foundation of the US. We already know that mass migration was more often than not, accompanied by an army to cease the land by force and lay waste to the local population.
We also know that unwanted mass migration was dealt with extermination of the immigrants. Though some people, specially merchants, were most likely invited in.

In the 1890's there was also mass migration into the US, but it was allowed due to the need of mass labor. But the country reserved the right to allow or nor people in. A small percentage was rejected, and it was illegal to smuggle some one inside the country.

You are stuck in the past on how the country was founded, would it be allright if migrants were treated as they were in the past?
We are not in the past, migrants are not massacred anymore, they are sent back. The country is already formed and it has laws.

There are laws to enter the country. If they cannot follow the first law as a migrant, they are not fit to be in the country.
Ask for legal entry. If granted, there is absolutely no issue with migration.

Migration is not the problem, absolutely nobody is against it, ILLEGAL entry to a country is what is not ok. Ask the country if they want you first. Is that simple.

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/eJzyJsLT) > "There is no inherit right to go to other country." > * There is. Migration is of all times. > The USA is populated by former immigrants, and now turns against new immigrants, they call aliens and attack with ICE. We know that in the past, land was ceased by force. It happened way before the US was founded, and still happens today. So how the US was formed is irrelevant. Land is under their control now. That wont change. We also know that the concept of nation was already known way before the foundation of the US. We already know that mass migration was more often than not, accompanied by an army to cease the land by force and lay waste to the local population. We also know that unwanted mass migration was dealt with extermination of the immigrants. Though some people, specially merchants, were most likely invited in. In the 1890's there was also mass migration into the US, but it was allowed due to the need of mass labor. But the country reserved the right to allow or nor people in. A small percentage was rejected, and it was illegal to smuggle some one inside the country. You are stuck in the past on how the country was founded, would it be allright if migrants were treated as they were in the past? We are not in the past, migrants are not massacred anymore, they are sent back. The country is already formed and it has laws. There are laws to enter the country. If they cannot follow the first law as a migrant, they are not fit to be in the country. Ask for legal entry. If granted, there is absolutely no issue with migration. Migration is not the problem, absolutely nobody is against it, ILLEGAL entry to a country is what is not ok. Ask the country if they want you first. Is that simple.

tpr

Young immigrants willing to work are an asset, not a liability.
They should be integrated, not locked up, or deported.
AfD advocates repression like ICE.

Young immigrants willing to work are an asset, not a liability. They should be integrated, not locked up, or deported. AfD advocates repression like ICE.

Alientcp

@tpr said ^

Young immigrants willing to work are an asset, not a liability.

Only if you have scarcity of labor

They should be integrated, not locked up, or deported.

They dont integrate culturally most of the times. The cohesion of a country is the union of the same principles, values and ideals. If you poll the migrant population on which side they would fight if the US in case they enter in a conflict with their country of origin, most will say they will fight for their country of origin.

AfD advocates repression like ICE.
We already established that there is no issue with legal immigration.
So, yes, removing illegal immigration is the goal. They have to enter the country legally. Is that simple.

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/wnL9Tysf) > Young immigrants willing to work are an asset, not a liability. Only if you have scarcity of labor > They should be integrated, not locked up, or deported. They dont integrate culturally most of the times. The cohesion of a country is the union of the same principles, values and ideals. If you poll the migrant population on which side they would fight if the US in case they enter in a conflict with their country of origin, most will say they will fight for their country of origin. > AfD advocates repression like ICE. We already established that there is no issue with legal immigration. So, yes, removing illegal immigration is the goal. They have to enter the country legally. Is that simple.

Noflaps

edited

@Clousems, this isn't about me, much as many would prefer it to be.

Believe and listen to what you choose.

All I ask is for people to NOTICE when what they've been told, and come to believe, does not actually prove out.

No, it wasn't the best Biden ever. No, Trump never said that white supremacists were "good people, too" -- he said expressly the opposite. I know, because I bothered to watch the WHOLE speech, not just an edited clip. The question is, how did a false impression --- that many STILL cling to -- come to be created in the heads of so many?

No, Trump wasn't a Russian agent. No, there was no good reason to search Melania's drawers, or surveil Trump's campaign or various Congresspeople and parents,

No, tariffs didn't end the world's economy; they've actually been quite useful and lead to some good things for America. Despite so many expert gloomers, the American economy is doing quite well. No, there was no need for Congress to "change the law" in order to secure the border. No, we probably didn't get Covid from bat soup.

And so forth.

Too many get played while thinking they're the players, all the while.

@Clousems, this isn't about me, much as many would prefer it to be. Believe and listen to what you choose. All I ask is for people to NOTICE when what they've been told, and come to believe, does not actually prove out. No, it wasn't the best Biden ever. No, Trump never said that white supremacists were "good people, too" -- he said expressly the opposite. I know, because I bothered to watch the WHOLE speech, not just an edited clip. The question is, how did a false impression --- that many STILL cling to -- come to be created in the heads of so many? No, Trump wasn't a Russian agent. No, there was no good reason to search Melania's drawers, or surveil Trump's campaign or various Congresspeople and parents, No, tariffs didn't end the world's economy; they've actually been quite useful and lead to some good things for America. Despite so many expert gloomers, the American economy is doing quite well. No, there was no need for Congress to "change the law" in order to secure the border. No, we probably didn't get Covid from bat soup. And so forth. Too many get played while thinking they're the players, all the while.

tpr edited

"Only if you have scarcity of labor"

Young immigrants replenish the ageing population.

"They dont integrate culturally most of the times."

They always have. The USA is populated by a few surviving indigenous people, English, French, German, Dutch, Irish (fled the famine), African (forced immigration), Spaniards, Italian, Chinese (they built railways), Japanese, Mexicans, Jews (before WWII), Vietnamese (after the Vietnam war), Afghans (after the Afghanistan war), Iraqis (after the Iraq war), Iranians (after the 1979 revolution), Cubans (after the revolution)...

"The cohesion of a country is the union of the same principles, values and ideals."

And also language, but provenance plays no role.

"If you poll the migrant population on which side they would fight if the US in case they enter in a conflict"

That is not true. Those of German or Japanese heritage fought with the USA in the Second World War.

"Only if you have scarcity of labor" * Young immigrants replenish the ageing population. "They dont integrate culturally most of the times." * They always have. The USA is populated by a few surviving indigenous people, English, French, German, Dutch, Irish (fled the famine), African (forced immigration), Spaniards, Italian, Chinese (they built railways), Japanese, Mexicans, Jews (before WWII), Vietnamese (after the Vietnam war), Afghans (after the Afghanistan war), Iraqis (after the Iraq war), Iranians (after the 1979 revolution), Cubans (after the revolution)... "The cohesion of a country is the union of the same principles, values and ideals." * And also language, but provenance plays no role. "If you poll the migrant population on which side they would fight if the US in case they enter in a conflict" * That is not true. Those of German or Japanese heritage fought with the USA in the Second World War.

End_Game_Flame

Sooooo. You really want my opinion? I think that political threads like these on random chess sites accomplish nothing but arguments and division. Nobody will, or ever has, won. Do us all a favor and just discuss the weather. ;) oh wait, that wont work either, because someone will bring up "climate change", or maybe "global warming", or whatever the name is now. They just can't decide.

Noflaps

I've become convinced that is unlikely to change. Even the obvious is often denied.

Better to just play chess.

Argument has turned into attempts to justify preferences and preconceptions. Nobody ever wants to be wrong, and many buy reassurance by embracing propaganda and wanting to ban or shame or attack counterargument. I've become convinced that is unlikely to change. Even the obvious is often denied. Better to just play chess.

tpr

You can also just answer the question:
"should the german party afd be banned ?"
My answer is no, as banning does not help.

You can also just answer the question: "should the german party afd be banned ?" My answer is no, as banning does not help.