@kindaspongey said in #16:
Generally, White wants more than to avoid being bad. One can, if one wants, accept a 0.0 goal with something like 1 e4 d5 2 e5, even if a more effective choice (2 exd5) is readily available, but that is not the sort of decision that normally gets much attention from the chess world. Sometimes, there can be flukes where people talk (mostly, I think, in a humorous spirit) about things like the Bongcloud, but the idea of 1 e4 d5 2 e5 does not seem to be funny enough to get that sort of attention.
yes, many play prefer exd5
because exd5 is objectively better
I just insist on the fact that pushing e5, even if it is objectively less good, it can have advantages
it can objectively be a strategy that destabilizes the adversary
I debunk the fact that the e5 move is hugely bad
basically I say that e5 is not a disaster as some people here might say
You have talked about 1 e4 d5 2 e5 c5 3 c3 Bf5 4 d4 e6, but that is the same position as the one that results from 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5. With experience playing against the Caro-Kann, White is quite likely to want something better than the sort of position that results from 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 etc.
1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5. in this sequence I must have missed something
because 2 d3 is a bad move in the caro-kann opening
in what I said, I just wanted to say that the white structure resembles that of the caro-kann when playing e5
I didn't mean the identical sequence of 1 e4 d5 2 e5 c5 3 c3 Bf5 4 d4 e6 and 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5.
even if there is better than the sequence 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5. the position will almost always look like a Caro-kann after the move e5
@Ludo2001
" basically [ColossusChess] says that the opening is an error while Stockfish itself judges that the opening is concretely equal to 0.0 ..."
I think that it is fairly common for a “0.0” option like 1 e4 d5 2 e5 to be regarded as an error by White when there is an alternative (2 exd5) that is good for perhaps a 0.3 advantage.
ColosseChess did not specify at the beginning that it is because of the alternative exd5, that therefore the move e5 is an error, in the first lines one could believe from this first saying that pushing e5 is concretely a error
as if the evaluation gave a white disadvantage, I could have understood better, but hey..., on the other hand ColassusChess could have been more precise, even if what he said could have been guessed on my part
Afterwards I don't think that e5 is a big mistake because of the exd5 alternative
as I said, the e5 can have advantages that can destabilize a Scandinavian player, so on the one hand, objectively speaking, this is not an error
if the player chooses to play e5, and it is done on purpose, one cannot deny that it is an error on his part since he did it on purpose
if he plays e5 it's because he has ideas...
then yes in general it can be considered objectively as an error but small
it's only because when we play exd5, it increases the risk for white to have a good position and often win that e5 is a mistake, that's all
in e5 there can be interesting lines,1. e4 d5 2. e5 c5 3. c3 d4 4. Bb5+ Bd7 5. e6 Bxb5 6. exf7+ Rxf7 7. Qb3+ e6 8. Qxb5 the black king can no longer castling.
@kindaspongey said in #16:
> Generally, White wants more than to avoid being bad. One can, if one wants, accept a 0.0 goal with something like 1 e4 d5 2 e5, even if a more effective choice (2 exd5) is readily available, but that is not the sort of decision that normally gets much attention from the chess world. Sometimes, there can be flukes where people talk (mostly, I think, in a humorous spirit) about things like the Bongcloud, but the idea of 1 e4 d5 2 e5 does not seem to be funny enough to get that sort of attention.
yes, many play prefer exd5
because exd5 is objectively better
I just insist on the fact that pushing e5, even if it is objectively less good, it can have advantages
it can objectively be a strategy that destabilizes the adversary
I debunk the fact that the e5 move is hugely bad
basically I say that e5 is not a disaster as some people here might say
> You have talked about 1 e4 d5 2 e5 c5 3 c3 Bf5 4 d4 e6, but that is the same position as the one that results from 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5. With experience playing against the Caro-Kann, White is quite likely to want something better than the sort of position that results from 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 etc.
1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5. in this sequence I must have missed something
because 2 d3 is a bad move in the caro-kann opening
in what I said, I just wanted to say that the white structure resembles that of the caro-kann when playing e5
I didn't mean the identical sequence of 1 e4 d5 2 e5 c5 3 c3 Bf5 4 d4 e6 and 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5.
even if there is better than the sequence 1 e4 c6 2 d3 d5 3 e5 Bf5 4 d4 e6 5 c3 c5. the position will almost always look like a Caro-kann after the move e5
@Ludo2001
" basically [ColossusChess] says that the opening is an error while Stockfish itself judges that the opening is concretely equal to 0.0 ..."
> I think that it is fairly common for a “0.0” option like 1 e4 d5 2 e5 to be regarded as an error by White when there is an alternative (2 exd5) that is good for perhaps a 0.3 advantage.
ColosseChess did not specify at the beginning that it is because of the alternative exd5, that therefore the move e5 is an error, in the first lines one could believe from this first saying that pushing e5 is concretely a error
as if the evaluation gave a white disadvantage, I could have understood better, but hey..., on the other hand ColassusChess could have been more precise, even if what he said could have been guessed on my part
Afterwards I don't think that e5 is a big mistake because of the exd5 alternative
as I said, the e5 can have advantages that can destabilize a Scandinavian player, so on the one hand, objectively speaking, this is not an error
if the player chooses to play e5, and it is done on purpose, one cannot deny that it is an error on his part since he did it on purpose
if he plays e5 it's because he has ideas...
then yes in general it can be considered objectively as an error but small
it's only because when we play exd5, it increases the risk for white to have a good position and often win that e5 is a mistake, that's all
in e5 there can be interesting lines,1. e4 d5 2. e5 c5 3. c3 d4 4. Bb5+ Bd7 5. e6 Bxb5 6. exf7+ Rxf7 7. Qb3+ e6 8. Qxb5 the black king can no longer castling.