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The best opening for white and the worst opening for white

verylate

rather than argue the relative merits of specific variations, I would like to propose a different standard of what constitutes a good or bad opening. About half an hour into the game (assuming something like standard time controls. If that hurts, then say about 10 or so moves into the game), are you comfortable with your position? Do you think you understand the plans available to yourself, and your opponent? Do you think you know what's going on in the game? Can you comfortably avoid any those awkward brain-ffarts that leave you wondering how to continue playing without looking stupid and allow you not to be the first person in the tournament to resign tonight? Because if not, your opening is suspect, perhaps even bad, because you don't know what is going on. Even if what you are playing is a perfectly reasonable book line.

Consider for a moment this opening, which I played and lost as black a little more than a week ago.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 I haven't played ...d5 in about 25, maybe 30 years; but there was a time when I was very interested in the semi-slav Meran variation, and also Botvinnik's crazy ...dxc4 variation. Perhaps, I thought, it was time to take an old girlfriend out on a date and reminisce old times.

4.Nc3 c6 5.Bg5 Say what? He isn't playing 5.e3 , when with ...Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 I can enter the Meran proper? So what now?

5 ...Nbd7?? No, this isn't really a ?? move, but the reason for my playing it makes it so. I honestly couldn't remember how Botvinnik used begin his crazy system. I imagined that there had to be one more, flexible, preparatory move before committing with ...dxc4 first, but I couldn't remember what it was. There isn't such an in-between move, this is the time to commit, if I'm going to; but I got that critical bit wrong. Oh, and 5...h6 does enter another variation that I have played before, and that would have been a reasonable choice. But after white's next move, I was swimming in dark waters.

6.cxd5(!) exd5 7.e3 Be7 8.Bd3 h6 9.Bf4 0-0 (9...Nh5 comes to mind as a way to create interesting imbalance) 10.h3 Re8 11.0-0 and already black is in trouble. You can put this position into any program you care to name, and it won't find anything more here than a typical white small advantage (plus over equals as we used to say, when paper chess informants were the last word in up to date information). But for me, this was already a bad position from the opening. I misplayed this game from here, not because this position in itself is bad, but because it wasn't what I wanted from the opening. It wasn't what I wanted to play, and I had no idea what I was doing. So yes: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 c6 5.Bg5 Nbd7 is an unsound opening. Or, for me, it was on that night.

rather than argue the relative merits of specific variations, I would like to propose a different standard of what constitutes a good or bad opening. About half an hour into the game (assuming something like standard time controls. If that hurts, then say about 10 or so moves into the game), are you comfortable with your position? Do you think you understand the plans available to yourself, and your opponent? Do you think you know what's going on in the game? Can you comfortably avoid any those awkward brain-ffarts that leave you wondering how to continue playing without looking stupid and allow you not to be the first person in the tournament to resign tonight? Because if not, your opening is suspect, perhaps even bad, because you don't know what is going on. Even if what you are playing is a perfectly reasonable book line. Consider for a moment this opening, which I played and lost as black a little more than a week ago. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 I haven't played ...d5 in about 25, maybe 30 years; but there was a time when I was very interested in the semi-slav Meran variation, and also Botvinnik's crazy ...dxc4 variation. Perhaps, I thought, it was time to take an old girlfriend out on a date and reminisce old times. 4.Nc3 c6 5.Bg5 Say what? He isn't playing 5.e3 , when with ...Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 I can enter the Meran proper? So what now? 5 ...Nbd7?? No, this isn't really a ?? move, but the reason for my playing it makes it so. I honestly couldn't remember how Botvinnik used begin his crazy system. I imagined that there had to be one more, flexible, preparatory move before committing with ...dxc4 first, but I couldn't remember what it was. There isn't such an in-between move, this is the time to commit, if I'm going to; but I got that critical bit wrong. Oh, and 5...h6 does enter another variation that I have played before, and that would have been a reasonable choice. But after white's next move, I was swimming in dark waters. 6.cxd5(!) exd5 7.e3 Be7 8.Bd3 h6 9.Bf4 0-0 (9...Nh5 comes to mind as a way to create interesting imbalance) 10.h3 Re8 11.0-0 and already black is in trouble. You can put this position into any program you care to name, and it won't find anything more here than a typical white small advantage (plus over equals as we used to say, when paper chess informants were the last word in up to date information). But for me, this was already a bad position from the opening. I misplayed this game from here, not because this position in itself is bad, but because it wasn't what I wanted from the opening. It wasn't what I wanted to play, and I had no idea what I was doing. So yes: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 c6 5.Bg5 Nbd7 is an unsound opening. Or, for me, it was on that night.
JYLee115

Bro I even got the mod to text at this. LOL

Bro I even got the mod to text at this. LOL
tpr

1 e4!, 1 g4?

1 e4!, 1 g4?
BLUNDERkingTHAgoat

@tpr said ^

"1. g4 can also be useful in many openings. You could play a4 later; there is no need to play it because"

  • The difference is that 1 g4 weakens the king's side and 1 a4 does not.

"You wasted your advantage as White"

  • The white advantage is a myth. Chess is a draw.

Agreed.

The only "advantage" is the number of lines black has to prepare.
If you play 1.e4 e5 1.c4 e5 1.d4 d5 1.Nf3 d5 (like me) then you have to study - Ruy Lopez,Scotch,4 knights x3, Kings gambit, evans gambit, slow italian, fast italian, italian gambit, center game, ponziani, vienna, vienna gambit, goring gambit, scotch gambit etc (1.e4 e5)

the setups i have to study in 1.d4 d5 are
London (2 setups) Colle (2 setups) Stonewall,Lasker (5 setups), Jobava,Exchange (2-3 setups i think) Trompowsky and Torre (is all i remember...)

c4 and nf3 are very transpositional setups (nvm- c4 also has 10~ lines) so I'm not going to mention them
Additionaly- theres 1.b4 & b3

But with white, a 1.e4 player has to study: sicillian,caro,french,e4 e5,scandi,alekhine,pirc,philidor,owens
a d4 player has an even lesser workload: d4 d5- whatever setup you choose maybe 4-5 lines. and KID,nimzo,bogo indians. Caro+french (if you choose to play e4 next)

but the important ones are QGD accepted, QGD declined, Slav, nimzo bogo KID. (as caro and french ideas transpose after c4 to slav or qgd exchange)

So while white has to study 9 lines (in e4) and 6 lines (in d4)
He can also choose setups without much theory, like b3, nf3 or c4.

But black has to study around 40-50 lines

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/FRMQtjGT) > "1. g4 can also be useful in many openings. You could play a4 later; there is no need to play it because" > * The difference is that 1 g4 weakens the king's side and 1 a4 does not. > > "You wasted your advantage as White" > * The white advantage is a myth. Chess is a draw. Agreed. The only "advantage" is the number of lines black has to prepare. If you play 1.e4 e5 1.c4 e5 1.d4 d5 1.Nf3 d5 (like me) then you have to study - Ruy Lopez,Scotch,4 knights x3, Kings gambit, evans gambit, slow italian, fast italian, italian gambit, center game, ponziani, vienna, vienna gambit, goring gambit, scotch gambit etc (1.e4 e5) the setups i have to study in 1.d4 d5 are London (2 setups) Colle (2 setups) Stonewall,Lasker (5 setups), Jobava,Exchange (2-3 setups i think) Trompowsky and Torre (is all i remember...) c4 and nf3 are very transpositional setups (nvm- c4 also has 10~ lines) so I'm not going to mention them Additionaly- theres 1.b4 & b3 But with white, a 1.e4 player has to study: sicillian,caro,french,e4 e5,scandi,alekhine,pirc,philidor,owens a d4 player has an even lesser workload: d4 d5- whatever setup you choose maybe 4-5 lines. and KID,nimzo,bogo indians. Caro+french (if you choose to play e4 next) but the important ones are QGD accepted, QGD declined, Slav, nimzo bogo KID. (as caro and french ideas transpose after c4 to slav or qgd exchange) So while white has to study 9 lines (in e4) and 6 lines (in d4) He can also choose setups without much theory, like b3, nf3 or c4. But black has to study around 40-50 lines
tpr

"So while white has to study 9 lines (in e4) and 6 lines (in d4)"

  • It is about the same

"He can also choose setups without much theory, like b3, nf3 or c4."

  • Yes, even Nc3, f4, b4, e3, c3, d3 are playable.

"But black has to study around 40-50 lines"

  • That is not really true. Black basically needs a defense against 1 e4 and against 1 d4.
    The advantage is that black plays the chosen defense more often than white, unless white plays the same defense as black.
"So while white has to study 9 lines (in e4) and 6 lines (in d4)" * It is about the same "He can also choose setups without much theory, like b3, nf3 or c4." * Yes, even Nc3, f4, b4, e3, c3, d3 are playable. "But black has to study around 40-50 lines" * That is not really true. Black basically needs a defense against 1 e4 and against 1 d4. The advantage is that black plays the chosen defense more often than white, unless white plays the same defense as black.
crusader5

@tpr said ^

"1. g4 can also be useful in many openings. You could play a4 later; there is no need to play it because"

  • The difference is that 1 g4 weakens the king's side and 1 a4 does not.

"You wasted your advantage as White"

  • The white advantage is a myth. Chess is a draw.

white obviously has an easier game

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/FRMQtjGT) > "1. g4 can also be useful in many openings. You could play a4 later; there is no need to play it because" > * The difference is that 1 g4 weakens the king's side and 1 a4 does not. > > "You wasted your advantage as White" > * The white advantage is a myth. Chess is a draw. white obviously has an easier game
tpr

"white obviously has an easier game"

  • But white is more likely to overextend.
"white obviously has an easier game" * But white is more likely to overextend.
KMcGeoch

Worst opening for white I don't think should be in doubt. It's playing f3 and g4 in first two moves. Whether you play 1.f3 or 1.g4 first is a matter of stylistic choice but you'll often be mated in 2 moves in around 21% of games if Lichess Opening Database is to be believed https://lichess.org/opening/Grob_Opening/g4_e5_f3.

Worst opening for white I don't think should be in doubt. It's playing f3 and g4 in first two moves. Whether you play 1.f3 or 1.g4 first is a matter of stylistic choice but you'll often be mated in 2 moves in around 21% of games if Lichess Opening Database is to be believed https://lichess.org/opening/Grob_Opening/g4_e5_f3.