why are there different titles per gender

This topic pops up frequently and I am really upset to read some comments here. :(

You should not be upset. You should have pity. When my first "big" love came to a chess tournament to catch me for the rest of the day she said to me after leaving the hall: " I have never seen such a mass of sexually inhibited men before." This was in the seventies, when the were more active female boxers than chess players in Germany.

Does anyone here know, when and why female titles were made. FIDE didn't invent them. Iirc FIDE intorduced them to promote chess for females. What was good formerly may become bad some day. This is something I don't want to discuss, but I like to read arguments.

There is research about gender differences in scientific psychology. Over all the result is that men and women are mostly equal in average. But men tend to have a broader range in their behaviour. This is a hypothesis taken from Darwin and you will find contradicting results. Mostly it does fit best to the data. In a population you find more men beyond the most selfish people, and you find more men beyond the most helpful. In average men and women are equal. You find more geniuses and more underperformers beyond men. In average there's no difference.

This is a reason to think about accepting different title norms. Another is pure statistics. As long as in chess more men than women play, there is beyond those groups the top 100 of males stronger than the top 100 of femals. So you have to decide if you want to give the titles acccording to subgroups or not. It is a social (political) decision to give national master titles. Why some people start discussing steadily womens titles and never national titles is obvious. Back to paragraph 1 directed to Funkmaus. In german without wrong restrictions: Diese Typen sind einfach untervögelt. Dafür gibt es Gründe.

@Funkmaus You should not be upset. You should have pity. When my first "big" love came to a chess tournament to catch me for the rest of the day she said to me after leaving the hall: " I have never seen such a mass of sexually inhibited men before." This was in the seventies, when the were more active female boxers than chess players in Germany. ------- Does anyone here know, when and why female titles were made. FIDE didn't invent them. Iirc FIDE intorduced them to promote chess for females. What was good formerly may become bad some day. This is something I don't want to discuss, but I like to read arguments. There is research about gender differences in scientific psychology. Over all the result is that men and women are mostly equal in average. But men tend to have a broader range in their behaviour. This is a hypothesis taken from Darwin and you will find contradicting results. Mostly it does fit best to the data. In a population you find more men beyond the most selfish people, and you find more men beyond the most helpful. In average men and women are equal. You find more geniuses and more underperformers beyond men. In average there's no difference. This is a reason to think about accepting different title norms. Another is pure statistics. As long as in chess more men than women play, there is beyond those groups the top 100 of males stronger than the top 100 of femals. So you have to decide if you want to give the titles acccording to subgroups or not. It is a social (political) decision to give national master titles. Why some people start discussing steadily womens titles and never national titles is obvious. Back to paragraph 1 directed to Funkmaus. In german without wrong restrictions: Diese Typen sind einfach untervögelt. Dafür gibt es Gründe.

Akshaj_the_Chess_pro

@Meriten,
Yes I agree to what you said. Judit Polgar was a great player. So, we could give her the title "GM". And most people do. Even her Twitter account username is - GMJuditPolgar. She deserves it.

That's what I said :- If the player is really great (like Carlsen) then you could classify the player as GM (even if it is a woman).

You can also use GM to describe these female players -

https://imgur.com/z6iD6u2

But you just CANNOT use a GM title to describe Anna Rudolf or Alexandra Botez.

@Meriten, Yes I agree to what you said. Judit Polgar was a great player. So, we could give her the title "GM". And most people do. Even her Twitter account username is - GMJuditPolgar. She deserves it. That's what I said :- If the player is really great (like Carlsen) then you could classify the player as GM (even if it is a woman). You can also use GM to describe these female players - https://imgur.com/z6iD6u2 But you just CANNOT use a GM title to describe Anna Rudolf or Alexandra Botez.

petri999

@Akshaj_the_Chess_pro you kinda obviously do not know much about titles. We cannot give Judith a title GM because she got loong time ago (age of 15) and to best of my knowledge she was never Wxx. Her sisters are GM and IM not WGM and WIM.

gettíng GM title is not limitted to men and requirements are the very same regardless of the sex.

@Akshaj_the_Chess_pro you kinda obviously do not know much about titles. We cannot give Judith a title GM because she got loong time ago (age of 15) and to best of my knowledge she was never Wxx. Her sisters are GM and IM not WGM and WIM. gettíng GM title is not limitted to men and requirements are the very same regardless of the sex.

Akshaj_the_Chess_pro

Why can't we give the GM title to Judit @petri999?? Even Magnus Carlsen became a GM at the age of 13, which is lesser than Judit too. Yes, she was never Wxx. But that's because she was great from the beginning. She is the first one to break the Fischer record.

Her sisters are not as great as Judit herself. You say her sisters never had a "W" too?
Well, you could be right and wrong.
You see, there isn't a clear idea between who should be categorized with a "W" and who shouldn't.

I could categorize Anna Rudolf as a WGM or I could say that she is just a GM.

It depends on the circumstances and the person.

Why can't we give the GM title to Judit @petri999?? Even Magnus Carlsen became a GM at the age of 13, which is lesser than Judit too. Yes, she was never Wxx. But that's because she was great from the beginning. She is the first one to break the Fischer record. Her sisters are not as great as Judit herself. You say her sisters never had a "W" too? Well, you could be right and wrong. You see, there isn't a clear idea between who should be categorized with a "W" and who shouldn't. I could categorize Anna Rudolf as a WGM or I could say that she is just a GM. It depends on the circumstances and the person.

Katzenschinken

@Akshaj_the_Chess_pro
"Why can't we give the GM title to Judit @petri999??"

You can't give the GM title to Judit Polgar because she already has it. Just like her sister Susan who is a GM as well. Everybody who read petri999's post knew that. Except you, Mr Chess Pro.

"I could categorize Anna Rudolf as a WGM or I could say that she is just a GM.
It depends on the circumstances and the person."

This is just plain rubbish, Mr. Chess Pro. Whether to call someone GM or WGM depends not on the circumstances and certainly not on the musings of a not very knowledgable man but solely if she had fulfilled the necessary norms for the respective title and was awarded it by the FIDE. For your information: Anna Rudolf is a WGM and she is an IM. Both titles rightfully earned.

@Akshaj_the_Chess_pro "Why can't we give the GM title to Judit @petri999??" You can't give the GM title to Judit Polgar because she already has it. Just like her sister Susan who is a GM as well. Everybody who read petri999's post knew that. Except you, Mr Chess Pro. "I could categorize Anna Rudolf as a WGM or I could say that she is just a GM. It depends on the circumstances and the person." This is just plain rubbish, Mr. Chess Pro. Whether to call someone GM or WGM depends not on the circumstances and certainly not on the musings of a not very knowledgable man but solely if she had fulfilled the necessary norms for the respective title and was awarded it by the FIDE. For your information: Anna Rudolf is a WGM and she is an IM. Both titles rightfully earned.

petri999

Anna Rudolf is actually also IM which is very prestige as well. So she is extremely strong chess player.

petri999

@Akshaj_the_Chess_pro there is very clear rules who get what title. They are all listed in FIDE handbook. And that is then up to player to achieve those ans request the title from national chess federeation who then applies the title from FIDE and they verify all requirements are met and grant the title. wether they has so Wxx titles at some point does not have anything todo with they current title Susan is GM and she was third woman to reach the title.

there is no grey are who gets categorized WGM or GM it is very well defined. not one bit opinion issue

@Akshaj_the_Chess_pro there is very clear rules who get what title. They are all listed in FIDE handbook. And that is then up to player to achieve those ans request the title from national chess federeation who then applies the title from FIDE and they verify all requirements are met and grant the title. wether they has so Wxx titles at some point does not have anything todo with they current title Susan is GM and she was third woman to reach the title. there is no grey are who gets categorized WGM or GM it is very well defined. not one bit opinion issue

MISTER_McCHESS

Can a woman get, for example, a GM title, not a WGM title?
(I'm not sure)
If the answer is yes, I don't really see a problem, to be quite honest.
If the answer is no, I think that's very unfair.

Can a woman get, for example, a GM title, not a WGM title? (I'm not sure) If the answer is yes, I don't really see a problem, to be quite honest. If the answer is no, I think that's very unfair.

eenremco123

I think so. Chess ratings are not gender related. But most of the time before being a GM u are first CM or IM. The title is "easier to get" given that fact, most female GM's will first be WGM because it's "easier" to get.

Your network blocks the Lichess assets!