Iran currently has no nuclear weapons.
Thank goodness.
But they did enrich Uranium to an extent that I believe is not at all typical of or necessary for peaceful energy production. Yet some keep trying to ignore that or distract from it.
And trying to blame Trump for Russia's actions during Biden's term is a real stretch. The war got under way in earnest in late February of 2022. WELL after Biden took office.
I'm not particularly trying to blame Biden -- he didn't invade, after all. But blaming Trump is rather silly and seems to be the same old politics that tries to spin away the obvious and stick to political preconception.
Like trying to spin away from massive, apparently unnecessary over-enrichment of Uranium coupled with attempts to build very, very long-range missiles.
FAR longer range than needed to go from Iran to Israel. How odd, if they're meant to counter Isarel. (Especially since Isreal nuked nobody, even after the horror of October 7).
By the way, Trump has been impeached twice along party lines. The impeachments were unsuccessful and just wasted time that obviously could have been better spent. Trump was acquitted by the Senate both times. Yet, if the Democrats take the House. I suppose the time wasting will start all over again.
The number of baseless, silly accusations flung around in politics has worn many people out. But I expect such tactics will continue. And many will fall for them, yet again.
Iran currently has no nuclear weapons.
Thank goodness.
But they did enrich Uranium to an extent that I believe is not at all typical of or necessary for peaceful energy production. Yet some keep trying to ignore that or distract from it.
And trying to blame Trump for Russia's actions during Biden's term is a real stretch. The war got under way in earnest in late February of 2022. WELL after Biden took office.
I'm not particularly trying to blame Biden -- he didn't invade, after all. But blaming Trump is rather silly and seems to be the same old politics that tries to spin away the obvious and stick to political preconception.
Like trying to spin away from massive, apparently unnecessary over-enrichment of Uranium coupled with attempts to build very, very long-range missiles.
FAR longer range than needed to go from Iran to Israel. How odd, if they're meant to counter Isarel. (Especially since Isreal nuked nobody, even after the horror of October 7).
By the way, Trump has been impeached twice along party lines. The impeachments were unsuccessful and just wasted time that obviously could have been better spent. Trump was acquitted by the Senate both times. Yet, if the Democrats take the House. I suppose the time wasting will start all over again.
The number of baseless, silly accusations flung around in politics has worn many people out. But I expect such tactics will continue. And many will fall for them, yet again.
"Iran has no nuclear weapons."
- Glad you acknowledge this. The presumed presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq had been used as a pretext for attacking Iraq with a UN mandate obtained with false evidence presented by Colin Powell.
"The war got under way in earnest in late February of 2022."
- The conflict was older, since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and even earlier: Russian Civil War, Holodomor, Second World War. There was the 2014 invasion of Crimea and the uprising in the Donbass. According to the 1994 Budapest memorandum the USA and UK guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Russian officials indicated in 2019 that the Kremlin would be willing to back off from its support for Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela in exchange for a free hand in Ukraine, according to Fiona Hill, an adviser to President Donald Trump at the time.
"very, very long-range missiles"
- The Jericho IV is very very long range, can reach New York. Iran can with effort reach Cyprus or Diego Garcia.
"Iran has no nuclear weapons."
* Glad you acknowledge this. The presumed presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq had been used as a pretext for attacking Iraq with a UN mandate obtained with false evidence presented by Colin Powell.
"The war got under way in earnest in late February of 2022."
* The conflict was older, since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and even earlier: Russian Civil War, Holodomor, Second World War. There was the 2014 invasion of Crimea and the uprising in the Donbass. According to the 1994 Budapest memorandum the USA and UK guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Russian officials indicated in 2019 that the Kremlin would be willing to back off from its support for Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela in exchange for a free hand in Ukraine, according to Fiona Hill, an adviser to President Donald Trump at the time.
"very, very long-range missiles"
* The Jericho IV is very very long range, can reach New York. Iran can with effort reach Cyprus or Diego Garcia.
Yes, Israel has long range missiles AND you've asserted that Israel has nukes.
Is a possible connection suddenly becoming easier to see after reflecting upon that?
I guess that the common sense possessed by most people will have to be used to evaluate the significance of the vast, apparently unnecessary enrichment of Uranium, and the refusal to surrender the fruits of it even if it means losing most of one's armed forces, which would seem to be a hugely expensive loss.
Do the savings of transporting some truckloads of Uranium REALLY amount to the cost of such vast losses and the resulting blockade?
Boy, that enrichment must provide some really extraordinary, massive advantages, eh? Forgive my puzzlement or even skepticism. But others are free, of course, to believe whatever they like! Or whatever suits their geopolitics, I guess.
Yes, Israel has long range missiles AND you've asserted that Israel has nukes.
Is a possible connection suddenly becoming easier to see after reflecting upon that?
I guess that the common sense possessed by most people will have to be used to evaluate the significance of the vast, apparently unnecessary enrichment of Uranium, and the refusal to surrender the fruits of it even if it means losing most of one's armed forces, which would seem to be a hugely expensive loss.
Do the savings of transporting some truckloads of Uranium REALLY amount to the cost of such vast losses and the resulting blockade?
Boy, that enrichment must provide some really extraordinary, massive advantages, eh? Forgive my puzzlement or even skepticism. But others are free, of course, to believe whatever they like! Or whatever suits their geopolitics, I guess.
@tpr said ^
According to the 1994 Budapest memorandum the USA and UK guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Russia was also a signatory of that memorandum and is therefore also a guarantor of Ukrainian territorial integrity!
@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/gDZZ0ME5)
> According to the 1994 Budapest memorandum the USA and UK guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Russia was also a signatory of that memorandum and is therefore also a guarantor of Ukrainian territorial integrity!
@Noflaps said ^
Please don't miss what really matters.
Endless Trump bashing doesn't make anybody any safer. Indeed, it just misses the point. Nothing really gets answered if we just try to come up with distracting one-liners that allow us to hang on to our political preconceptions.
America and Europe didn't stop Hitler as quickly as they hoped to do. But I'm still glad they did.
I just wish they h...
Didn’t Trump order to attack Iran? Forgive me if I’m wrong ._.
@Noflaps said [^](/forum/redirect/post/uU5gMbRa)
> Please don't miss what really matters.
>
> Endless Trump bashing doesn't make anybody any safer. Indeed, it just misses the point. Nothing really gets answered if we just try to come up with distracting one-liners that allow us to hang on to our political preconceptions.
>
> America and Europe didn't stop Hitler as quickly as they hoped to do. But I'm still glad they did.
>
> I just wish they h...
Didn’t Trump order to attack Iran? Forgive me if I’m wrong ._.
"Russia was also a signatory of that memorandum and is therefore also a guarantor of Ukrainian territorial integrity!"
- Yes, but Russia does not recognize the 2014 Maidan Revolution, i.e. considers the present government of Ukraine as illegitimate, and thus considers it not bound to the Budapest memorandum vis a vis the present regime.
Likewise there were some agreements between the USA and the Shah of Iran. After the revolution of 1979 these were considered null and void.
The UK and the USA recognized the new regime in Kyiv, so were obliged to guarantee territorial integrity in 2014 as well as in 2022.
"the refusal to surrender the fruits of it"
- Iran had signed the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, but Trump withdrew from it.
"even if it means losing most of one's armed forces"
- So Canada, Greenland, Spain, Panama, Iceland should all yield to Trump's threats so as not to lose armed forces?
"Russia was also a signatory of that memorandum and is therefore also a guarantor of Ukrainian territorial integrity!"
* Yes, but Russia does not recognize the 2014 Maidan Revolution, i.e. considers the present government of Ukraine as illegitimate, and thus considers it not bound to the Budapest memorandum vis a vis the present regime.
Likewise there were some agreements between the USA and the Shah of Iran. After the revolution of 1979 these were considered null and void.
The UK and the USA recognized the new regime in Kyiv, so were obliged to guarantee territorial integrity in 2014 as well as in 2022.
"the refusal to surrender the fruits of it"
* Iran had signed the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, but Trump withdrew from it.
"even if it means losing most of one's armed forces"
* So Canada, Greenland, Spain, Panama, Iceland should all yield to Trump's threats so as not to lose armed forces?
@tpr said ^
Yes, but Russia does not recognize the 2014 Maidan Revolution, i.e. considers the present government of Ukraine as illegitimate, and thus considers it not bound to the Budapest memorandum vis a vis the present regime.
This is not correct. Ukraine's territorial integrity is not dependent on other states recognising the legitimacy of its government (nor did the memorandum make any such representation). If a government is considered illegitimate by other governments (and there are truly are illegitimate regimes around the world), this does not give other states the right to carve up that country's territory.
@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/UDjqefOJ)
> Yes, but Russia does not recognize the 2014 Maidan Revolution, i.e. considers the present government of Ukraine as illegitimate, and thus considers it not bound to the Budapest memorandum vis a vis the present regime.
This is not correct. Ukraine's territorial integrity is not dependent on other states recognising the legitimacy of its government (nor did the memorandum make any such representation). If a government is considered illegitimate by other governments (and there are truly are illegitimate regimes around the world), this does not give other states the right to carve up that country's territory.
"Ukraine's territorial integrity is not dependent on other states recognising"
- Russia considers Ukraine as a new country after the Maidan Revolution, and does not feel obliged by the Budapest Memorandum.
Likewise you can say that Iran became a new country after the revolution, or Russia became a new country after the revolution.
The point is, that the UK and the USA were and are still bound by the Budapest memorandum.
That Trump I made a deal with Russia to trade Ukraine for Venezuela emboldened Russia to invade.
"Ukraine's territorial integrity is not dependent on other states recognising"
* Russia considers Ukraine as a new country after the Maidan Revolution, and does not feel obliged by the Budapest Memorandum.
Likewise you can say that Iran became a new country after the revolution, or Russia became a new country after the revolution.
The point is, that the UK and the USA were and are still bound by the Budapest memorandum.
That Trump I made a deal with Russia to trade Ukraine for Venezuela emboldened Russia to invade.
@tpr said ^
Russia considers Ukraine as a new country after the Maidan Revolution, and does not feel obliged by the Budapest Memorandum.
This is also not correct!
Treaties are not between regimes, they are between sovereign states. Treaties are not null and void simply as a result of a change of government, whether by revolution or otherwise. Iran, after the revolution, did not have to re-sign the United Nations Charter and rejoin the United Nations - the new government simply took up the seats allotted to Iran.
Talking of the United Nations Charter, of which Russia is a signatory, here is Item 4 of Article 2:
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."
Ironic, isn't it?
@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/j9LRi3mM)
> Russia considers Ukraine as a new country after the Maidan Revolution, and does not feel obliged by the Budapest Memorandum.
This is also not correct!
Treaties are not between regimes, they are between sovereign states. Treaties are not null and void simply as a result of a change of government, whether by revolution or otherwise. Iran, after the revolution, did not have to re-sign the United Nations Charter and rejoin the United Nations - the new government simply took up the seats allotted to Iran.
Talking of the United Nations Charter, of which Russia is a signatory, here is Item 4 of Article 2:
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."
Ironic, isn't it?
"Treaties are not between regimes, they are between sovereign states."
- But after a revolution you can argue it is a new country. Correct or not, that is the position of Russia.
However, the UK and the USA were signatories of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum especially to guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
As Trump I and Russia agreed to leave each other free reign in Venezuela and Ukraine, it emboldened Putin to invade.
If Trump I had said to respect the territorial integrity of Venezuela, and to intervene with all force if Russia violated the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then the invasion would not have happened.
"Treaties are not between regimes, they are between sovereign states."
* But after a revolution you can argue it is a new country. Correct or not, that is the position of Russia.
However, the UK and the USA were signatories of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum especially to guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
As Trump I and Russia agreed to leave each other free reign in Venezuela and Ukraine, it emboldened Putin to invade.
If Trump I had said to respect the territorial integrity of Venezuela, and to intervene with all force if Russia violated the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then the invasion would not have happened.