On the gleeful subversion of lichess ToS in the Off-Topic section (or: the clousems annual mod rant)

https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/please-stop-using-ai-images-and-text-on-here?page=3 https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/why-arent-we-allowed-to-put-emojis-in-forums?page=4 https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/225-how?page=4 https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/1-day-timeout-for--trolling-spamming-flooding-please?page=2

notsoneutral

A good friend: Calls you in jail.

A great friend: Bails you out of jail.

Your best friend: Sits next to you saying, "What a night!"

A good friend: Calls you in jail. A great friend: Bails you out of jail. Your best friend: Sits next to you saying, "What a night!"

clousems

@Noflaps
The mention of evading playbans was more to reiterate that I consider that much worse than evading chatbans.

@Noflaps The mention of evading playbans was more to reiterate that I consider that much worse than evading chatbans.

greenteakitten

I hope I'm not sounding too much like a mini mod here, but I wish the following things could be implemented in OTF:

AI use: https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/please-stop-using-ai-images-and-text-on-here?page=1

Similar to what @CSKA_Moscou (hope you don't mind the ping!) mentioned earlier, I think people deserve more transparency about the reality of the technologies they use before they actually do anything. It's not fair to those who automatically find themselves blocked by other artists/writers without ever knowing why. Personally, I think using AI, and this is a terrible analogy -- is a little like hunting exotic animals. It's fine in controlled, sustainable amounts, but the level it has been used at on here and in the broader Lichess community is a little overboard. While there are a few legitimate uses for AI, the vast majority I hear from people are pretty basic excuses. Yes, it's a tool; no, not all tools are meant to be used every day. A bit of apples to oranges here but nobody would use a crane to pick up a cardboard box. People can use Unsplash or find a random teenage artist (the ones I know often design for free) if they really need something specialized for their blogs/logos.

Spam:

I wish this was more clear. It's hard to tell what qualifies as spam or not based on what I see on here. Is repeated big blocks of quotes with a three character response (e.g. "lol") spam? Is a thread mostly consisting of posting Youtube song links spam? It's hard to tell when certain threads get banned while others that are arguably more "spammy" in nature don't. I don't mean to sound elitist, but it's a little bit annoying to see more thought-provoking threads getting derailed by jokes because the same people that hate it when their "fun threads are ruined" refuse to follow their own advice of "don't like, don't read" when they see politics.

Relationships:

Ya'll really need to go touch some grass. It's insane the amount of insults, both direct and subtle, that are showcased here simply because someone disagrees with something you said. Why isn't this stuff policed more often? People literally get cyberbullied here, but so long as they take it in stride, nobody gets banned? Troll accounts get to come back 50 times in a row because once in a while they say something that the majority of OTF relates to? I'm not suggesting people need to be watched like hawks (if that was really true, I bet I've probably unknowingly broken tons of rules by now and would get banned along with everyone else) but the decisions for who gets to stay and who doesn't feel a bit arbitrary at times and a little like "squeaky wheel gets the grease" instead of actually comparing back to standards.

(P.S.) Formatting:

This isn't a moderation issue and it doesn't fully relate to the topic but I wish people realized that they need to press enter twice to get a quote separate from their response.

(P.P.S.) The Terms of Service for Lichess are extremely easy to read through compared to most sites. It's written in plain English and honestly, that was probably the one time I ever read through ToS before accepting, lol.

I hope I'm not sounding too much like a mini mod here, but I wish the following things could be implemented in OTF: AI use: https://lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/please-stop-using-ai-images-and-text-on-here?page=1 Similar to what @CSKA_Moscou (hope you don't mind the ping!) mentioned earlier, I think people deserve more transparency about the reality of the technologies they use before they actually do anything. It's not fair to those who automatically find themselves blocked by other artists/writers without ever knowing why. Personally, I think using AI, and this is a terrible analogy -- is a little like hunting exotic animals. It's fine in controlled, sustainable amounts, but the level it has been used at on here and in the broader Lichess community is a little overboard. While there are a few legitimate uses for AI, the vast majority I hear from people are pretty basic excuses. Yes, it's a tool; no, not all tools are meant to be used every day. A bit of apples to oranges here but nobody would use a crane to pick up a cardboard box. People can use Unsplash or find a random teenage artist (the ones I know often design for free) if they really need something specialized for their blogs/logos. Spam: I wish this was more clear. It's hard to tell what qualifies as spam or not based on what I see on here. Is repeated big blocks of quotes with a three character response (e.g. "lol") spam? Is a thread mostly consisting of posting Youtube song links spam? It's hard to tell when certain threads get banned while others that are arguably more "spammy" in nature don't. I don't mean to sound elitist, but it's a little bit annoying to see more thought-provoking threads getting derailed by jokes because the same people that hate it when their "fun threads are ruined" refuse to follow their own advice of "don't like, don't read" when they see politics. Relationships: Ya'll really need to go touch some grass. It's insane the amount of insults, both direct and subtle, that are showcased here simply because someone disagrees with something you said. Why isn't this stuff policed more often? People literally get cyberbullied here, but so long as they take it in stride, nobody gets banned? Troll accounts get to come back 50 times in a row because once in a while they say something that the majority of OTF relates to? I'm not suggesting people need to be watched like hawks (if that was really true, I bet I've probably unknowingly broken tons of rules by now and would get banned along with everyone else) but the decisions for who gets to stay and who doesn't feel a bit arbitrary at times and a little like "squeaky wheel gets the grease" instead of actually comparing back to standards. (P.S.) Formatting: This isn't a moderation issue and it doesn't fully relate to the topic but I wish people realized that they need to press enter twice to get a quote separate from their response. (P.P.S.) The Terms of Service for Lichess are extremely easy to read through compared to most sites. It's written in plain English and honestly, that was probably the one time I ever read through ToS before accepting, lol.

NM MrPushwood

@LeSereinColosse said ^

What kind of asshole are you @clousems !!

A mere shadow of the asshole you are, pal.

@LeSereinColosse said [^](/forum/redirect/post/TddSi0XV) > What kind of asshole are you @clousems !! A mere shadow of the asshole you are, pal.

NM MrPushwood

@Noflaps said

If there is an obviously silly thread -- I just skip it. Where's the great burden in that? I don't see one.

Well, that's okay if there aren't too many of them. But we do seem to be getting a glut of this sort of thing lately...where a few kids are using the forums to chat amongst themselves (when they could just as easily be messaging each other)...and needlessly hitting the quote button as well (when it's just the same voices yakking)....until the whole business comes to resemble (as I once said earlier): "the conversational equivalent of Brownian motion."

It all begins to seem like excerpts from some especially tedious Frederick Wiseman documentary: "Junior High Cafeteria."

If these tykes want to converse with each other at length, that's fine (after all, I was their age too once--sometime back in the Stone Age). But I really don't think that a public forum is the place where they should be doing it--at least, not nearly as often as they have been.

@Noflaps said > If there is an obviously silly thread -- I just skip it. Where's the great burden in that? I don't see one. Well, that's okay if there aren't too many of them. But we do seem to be getting a glut of this sort of thing lately...where a few kids are using the forums to chat amongst themselves (when they could just as easily be messaging each other)...and needlessly hitting the quote button as well (when it's just the same voices yakking)....until the whole business comes to resemble (as I once said earlier): "the conversational equivalent of Brownian motion." It all begins to seem like excerpts from some especially tedious Frederick Wiseman documentary: "Junior High Cafeteria." If these tykes want to converse with each other at length, that's fine (after all, I was their age too once--sometime back in the Stone Age). But I really don't think that a public forum is the place where they should be doing it--at least, not nearly as often as they have been.

Noflaps

edited

@greenteakitten writes: "the same people that hate it when their "fun threads are ruined" refuse to follow their own advice of "don't like, don't read" when they see politics."

I'm not too sure to whom this is directed. Yet, clearly, I am certainly someone who has favored the idea of "don't like, don't read." But I don't remember complaining that some "fun thread" was being "ruined."

So, to avoid confusion, let me just make it clear: I, for one, try never to have or inspire "fun."

So, no, I have, as a consequence, never once complained that some "fun thread" of "mine" was "being ruined." No, if I see a "fun thread" I am more likely to gasp and turn away, appalled!

No -- if anybody sees me accidentally having fun, please remind me, with words like, "oh, Noflaps, what are you doing having fun?" That might serve to shock me back to steadfast solemnity, as befits the august and world famous Lichess Off-Topics Forum.

Yes, let's all work together to figure out what "spam" is and moan about it, until we are treated to The Return Of Seriousness. My eyes have seen the light. No light-hearted silly hijinks shall be applauded by me, for the foreseeable future!

And as for politics, I'll take mine shaken but not stirred.

@greenteakitten writes: "the same people that hate it when their "fun threads are ruined" refuse to follow their own advice of "don't like, don't read" when they see politics." I'm not too sure to whom this is directed. Yet, clearly, I am certainly someone who has favored the idea of "don't like, don't read." But I don't remember complaining that some "fun thread" was being "ruined." So, to avoid confusion, let me just make it clear: I, for one, try never to have or inspire "fun." So, no, I have, as a consequence, never once complained that some "fun thread" of "mine" was "being ruined." No, if I see a "fun thread" I am more likely to gasp and turn away, appalled! No -- if anybody sees me accidentally having fun, please remind me, with words like, "oh, Noflaps, what are you doing having fun?" That might serve to shock me back to steadfast solemnity, as befits the august and world famous Lichess Off-Topics Forum. Yes, let's all work together to figure out what "spam" is and moan about it, until we are treated to The Return Of Seriousness. My eyes have seen the light. No light-hearted silly hijinks shall be applauded by me, for the foreseeable future! And as for politics, I'll take mine shaken but not stirred.

RomanWalkerCrosby

I personally believe that kids should try to be at least a little bit serious about forum etiquette. they should go use dms or team forums for spam and ban evading is especially not ok.

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Your network blocks the Lichess assets!

On the gleeful subversion of lichess ToS in the Off-Topic section (or: the clousems annual mod rant)