Your network blocks the Lichess assets!

lichess.org
Donate

if christian god existed, would he be a cruel god?

@Sleepy_Gary said in #50:

So we created the parasite worm that does nothing but eat children’s eye balls? Humans caused Pompeii to be wiped out by volcanoes?
It's all the result of sin.

@Sleepy_Gary said in #50: > So we created the parasite worm that does nothing but eat children’s eye balls? Humans caused Pompeii to be wiped out by volcanoes? It's all the result of sin.

If you put the whole religion thing into human perspective ... We don't normally invite people to our homes that don't have feelings for us or a reason to be. Think about that for a while and then consider heaven a home. Why should anyone be invite to a home, if they blaspheme the place. Too many are burning bridges blindly and then assume somebody owes them for the good they did. Respect and reverence are prerequisites for genuine belonging.

Asking questions maybe a fundamental part of human curiosity and learning, but it doesn’t guarantee that any of us will receive a satisfactory or definitive answer to the subject question.

If you put the whole religion thing into human perspective ... We don't normally invite people to our homes that don't have feelings for us or a reason to be. Think about that for a while and then consider heaven a home. Why should anyone be invite to a home, if they blaspheme the place. Too many are burning bridges blindly and then assume somebody owes them for the good they did. Respect and reverence are prerequisites for genuine belonging. Asking questions maybe a fundamental part of human curiosity and learning, but it doesn’t guarantee that any of us will receive a satisfactory or definitive answer to the subject question.

@xDoubledragon said in #1:

The whole system of hell and heaven is simply messed up. if you think about it.

simply because you can't just compare people by the good or bad things they did. because it is heavily influenced by environment.
Let's say we have a good person who has an easy life (wealthy, handsome, intelligent) and a bad person who has an extremely difficult life, living under extreme cruelty. For a good person, it is easy to be a good person; you can give homeless people money, no one has a conflict with you, you are positive, and you help everybody. People are nice for you. You have no reason to be evil. Meanwhile, for a bad person, it is easy to be a cruel and terrible person because of the environment you're in. Yet a bad person would go to hell and a good person would go to heaven. And because it is purely a god choice, isn't that unfair? For that reason, a good god would never create hell and heaven, because he knows it isn't your fault being evil or good but rather what environment shaped you.

And if someone says a person is born evil when there is a point of even hell and heaven, when you've literally created this person to be evil.
And if someone says forgive me, God, or I'm not evil, or whatever thing would avoid "evil" person punishment is reliant on his's mental state, which was shaped by his environment.

Only a true fair god wouldn't create hell and heaven but rather give you a life experience of what you want. It was your choice to experience this.
you don't go to heaven cuz ur good u go to heaven if u believe jesus is the son of god and you accept him... in the bible it says jesus died 4 our sins and paid the price for all of our sins and that if we accept him we can go to heaven... and if u dont u go to hll... if an evil person is saved they go to heaven... if a good person is not saved they go to hll.... that is what christianty was founded on and what i believe but some people believe other wise...

@xDoubledragon said in #1: > The whole system of hell and heaven is simply messed up. if you think about it. > > simply because you can't just compare people by the good or bad things they did. because it is heavily influenced by environment. > Let's say we have a good person who has an easy life (wealthy, handsome, intelligent) and a bad person who has an extremely difficult life, living under extreme cruelty. For a good person, it is easy to be a good person; you can give homeless people money, no one has a conflict with you, you are positive, and you help everybody. People are nice for you. You have no reason to be evil. Meanwhile, for a bad person, it is easy to be a cruel and terrible person because of the environment you're in. Yet a bad person would go to hell and a good person would go to heaven. And because it is purely a god choice, isn't that unfair? For that reason, a good god would never create hell and heaven, because he knows it isn't your fault being evil or good but rather what environment shaped you. > > And if someone says a person is born evil when there is a point of even hell and heaven, when you've literally created this person to be evil. > And if someone says forgive me, God, or I'm not evil, or whatever thing would avoid "evil" person punishment is reliant on his's mental state, which was shaped by his environment. > > Only a true fair god wouldn't create hell and heaven but rather give you a life experience of what you want. It was your choice to experience this. you don't go to heaven cuz ur good u go to heaven if u believe jesus is the son of god and you accept him... in the bible it says jesus died 4 our sins and paid the price for all of our sins and that if we accept him we can go to heaven... and if u dont u go to h*ll... if an evil person is saved they go to heaven... if a good person is not saved they go to h*ll.... that is what christianty was founded on and what i believe but some people believe other wise...

@ALucasM said in #62:

It's all the result of sin.
ye

@ALucasM said in #62: > It's all the result of sin. ye

@salmon_rushdie said in #60:

Reality is not an opinion, and the confines of life within our context and environment are fairly rigid whether we dare identify them, or not.

"If you squint your eyes real tight...the presence of needlessly hungry, and/or dead babies, is actually an opportunity to identify one's state of mind, where one can then shift one's perspective, and gain wisdom and acceptance and learn that everyone, us, the baby's parents, are all learning our deepest lessons. Not the baby itself, though, because it's dead, but you know...it's good for the rest of us...and also for the baby, too. Besides, it helps shake us out of focus on our boring and mundane reality." - your mouth (paraphrased)

"I agree with you, Abel. It would be better if I was surrounded by much more love." - you (paraphrased)

Our life within this context is mundane. Reality is not.

Just like with the flood, I see we're still trying to conflate our own deadly "contributions" as "co-creators" with that of God and God's will. When will we learn?

Being surrounded with sullied marriage beds, is mundane.
Sleeping with one eye open because distrust has been sown, is mundane.
Taking any part in the same ungodly and unloving effects that take the lives of our one another, is mundane.
Needlessly being separated from our newborns, is mundane.

Reality, itself, is not mundane.
Our life within this particular context, is.

The solution isn't learning to thank people for selfishly terrorizing us, or learning to slander and thank God for sending people to terrorize us.

The solution is unselfishly loving our one another instead of selfishly mistreating our one another.

Also, you said "mundane reality"...

I'm not sure what you meant to say with these two words...but metaphysically, really, you've simply illustrated what it's like to watch a kid poop on his favourite gift/toy, and then afterwards refusing to play with it because it stinks, while being too proud and weak to admit that he was the cause...too proud, and weak to admit it was unnecessary...too proud and weak to admit that he made a mistake, and, instead, redefines 'mistake', and, instead, disavows his affinity for that gift/toy...and finally...too proud and weak to admit the existence of soap that could help correct the situation...because then he'd first have to admit that he needlessly spoiled his toy and would truly like it back.

This is no different than those marching against mistreatment, while metaphysically, really, and truly, calling for God to annex this locale...while simultaneously allowing their lying mouths to disavow Him.

It's as though there is what we are "saying", and then there is what we are saying...and they are sometimes dichotomous...but it's always what we're "saying" which is divorced from our reality and its confines.

After all that time in silence...I'm surprised you don't yet see it, too!

Finally, as someone from the group of people who proclaimed to have understood and mastered this 'lying mouth' that we're saddled with...

I'm curious if you're aware that it's obvious when you are believing and disseminating its lies?

"Don't worry about that! It's your worry that's the problem, not the needless ungodliness. Learn to see it as a perk that helps take us from our boring and mundane existence! Learn to see the needlessly destroyed victims of selfish misbehaviour as an opportunity to grow and expand our horizons! There is no problem, here! These are not the drones that you're seeking."

I like that you stand by your paradigm...

But I don't like that you're trying to learn to disavow the joy that your favourite gift has to offer you, instead of seeking to scrub it clean so that you can enjoy it again.

It's not stoic to disavow the joy that your gift has the potential to offer you, it's stoic to work at dissolving the endless amount of feces that we've smeared it with.

It's sad to watch you "do what you want with it" at the cost of your ability to do what you want with it...no differently than it's sad to see someone head to the liquor store where they can "do what they want", instead of heading to Alcoholic's Anonymous where they can get 10 years sober and do what they really want.

@salmon_rushdie said in #60: Reality is not an opinion, and the confines of life within our context and environment are fairly rigid whether we dare identify them, or not. "If you squint your eyes real tight...the presence of needlessly hungry, and/or dead babies, is actually an opportunity to identify one's state of mind, where one can then shift one's perspective, and gain wisdom and acceptance and learn that everyone, us, the baby's parents, are all learning our deepest lessons. Not the baby itself, though, because it's dead, but you know...it's good for the rest of us...and also for the baby, too. Besides, it helps shake us out of focus on our boring and mundane reality." - your mouth (paraphrased) "I agree with you, Abel. It would be better if I was surrounded by much more love." - you (paraphrased) - Our life within this context is mundane. Reality is not. Just like with the flood, I see we're still trying to conflate our own deadly "contributions" as "co-creators" with that of God and God's will. When will we learn? Being surrounded with sullied marriage beds, is mundane. Sleeping with one eye open because distrust has been sown, is mundane. Taking any part in the same ungodly and unloving effects that take the lives of our one another, is mundane. Needlessly being separated from our newborns, is mundane. Reality, itself, is not mundane. Our life within this particular context, is. The solution isn't learning to thank people for selfishly terrorizing us, or learning to slander and thank God for sending people to terrorize us. The solution is unselfishly loving our one another instead of selfishly mistreating our one another. Also, you said "mundane reality"... I'm not sure what you meant to say with these two words...but metaphysically, really, you've simply illustrated what it's like to watch a kid poop on his favourite gift/toy, and then afterwards refusing to play with it because it stinks, while being too proud and weak to admit that he was the cause...too proud, and weak to admit it was unnecessary...too proud and weak to admit that he made a mistake, and, instead, redefines 'mistake', and, instead, disavows his affinity for that gift/toy...and finally...too proud and weak to admit the existence of soap that could help correct the situation...because then he'd first have to admit that he needlessly spoiled his toy and would truly like it back. This is no different than those marching against mistreatment, while metaphysically, really, and truly, calling for God to annex this locale...while simultaneously allowing their lying mouths to disavow Him. It's as though there is what we are "saying", and then there is what we are saying...and they are sometimes dichotomous...but it's always what we're "saying" which is divorced from our reality and its confines. After all that time in silence...I'm surprised you don't yet see it, too! Finally, as someone from the group of people who proclaimed to have understood and mastered this 'lying mouth' that we're saddled with... I'm curious if you're aware that it's obvious when you are believing and disseminating its lies? "Don't worry about that! It's your worry that's the problem, not the needless ungodliness. Learn to see it as a perk that helps take us from our boring and mundane existence! Learn to see the needlessly destroyed victims of selfish misbehaviour as an opportunity to grow and expand our horizons! There is no problem, here! These are not the drones that you're seeking." I like that you stand by your paradigm... But I don't like that you're trying to learn to disavow the joy that your favourite gift has to offer you, instead of seeking to scrub it clean so that you can enjoy it again. It's not stoic to disavow the joy that your gift has the potential to offer you, it's stoic to work at dissolving the endless amount of feces that we've smeared it with. It's sad to watch you "do what you want with it" at the cost of your ability to do what you want with it...no differently than it's sad to see someone head to the liquor store where they can "do what they want", instead of heading to Alcoholic's Anonymous where they can get 10 years sober and do what they really want.

@ALucasM said in #62:

It's all the result of sin.

The term "sin" is a bit woo-woo.

The term "unloving misbehaviour" is not.

The term "sin" allows confusion.

The term "unloving misbehaviour" addresses and teaches, precisely, what the problem is...and it replaces the fictional and imaginative paradigms of those of us with inaccurate world views...with the iron bars which surround us.

With that said?

Yes, you are perfectly correct and there is absolutely no way around it but for One.

And it's right there in the semantics...if unloving misbehaviour is the problem...then loving behaviour is the solution.

It's wild that Love, Itself, happens to be our Father in Heaven.
And it's wild that He's come here to offer us a solution.

His perfect Love, Truth, Life, and Innocence, dwelling here in the Flesh, in order to provide a solution for us, is worse than our most rotten abuses against innocent children.

It's amazing the things that loving Parents will do for their children...

How could there be anything except admiration?

In fact, while we're on the subject...it's amazing to me that Jesus the Christ is at all, ever, slandered!
How has this come about?

Even if someone's perception was that He is fiction...that still doesn't explain the vitriol.
It's truly bizarre.

Is it down to the way that those who've represented Him have mistreated others?
Or is there more to it?

Who knows...but it's truly weird.

We promote Love, while simultaneously allowing our lying mouths to speak against it, and our hands to misbehave unlovingly.

It's weird and it's just completely boring by now.

@ALucasM said in #62: > It's all the result of sin. The term "sin" is a bit woo-woo. The term "unloving misbehaviour" is not. The term "sin" allows confusion. The term "unloving misbehaviour" addresses and teaches, precisely, what the problem is...and it replaces the fictional and imaginative paradigms of those of us with inaccurate world views...with the iron bars which surround us. - With that said? Yes, you are perfectly correct and there is absolutely no way around it but for One. And it's right there in the semantics...if unloving misbehaviour is the problem...then loving behaviour is the solution. It's wild that Love, Itself, happens to be our Father in Heaven. And it's wild that He's come here to offer us a solution. His perfect Love, Truth, Life, and Innocence, dwelling here in the Flesh, in order to provide a solution for us, is worse than our most rotten abuses against innocent children. It's amazing the things that loving Parents will do for their children... How could there be anything except admiration? In fact, while we're on the subject...it's amazing to me that Jesus the Christ is at all, ever, slandered! How has this come about? Even if someone's perception was that He is fiction...that still doesn't explain the vitriol. It's truly bizarre. Is it down to the way that those who've represented Him have mistreated others? Or is there more to it? Who knows...but it's truly weird. We promote Love, while simultaneously allowing our lying mouths to speak against it, and our hands to misbehave unlovingly. It's weird and it's just completely boring by now.

@ALucasM said in #62:

It's all the result of sin.

Murdering entire populations and making parasites that eat eyeballs for the “sins” of a few people is horribly cruel.

I’m obviously not going to change your mind, because religious people always pull out some BS to justify the cruel existence we live in. Hopefully some rational people reading this that have their parents/community trying to indoctrinate them into their cult can understand that if the Christian god does exist, they are either terribly cruel or have no love for humanity.

@ALucasM said in #62: > It's all the result of sin. Murdering entire populations and making parasites that eat eyeballs for the “sins” of a few people is horribly cruel. I’m obviously not going to change your mind, because religious people always pull out some BS to justify the cruel existence we live in. Hopefully some rational people reading this that have their parents/community trying to indoctrinate them into their cult can understand that if the Christian god does exist, they are either terribly cruel or have no love for humanity.

@Sleepy_Gary said in #68:

Murdering entire populations and making parasites that eat eyeballs for the “sins” of a few people is horribly cruel.

I’m obviously not going to change your mind, because religious people always pull out some BS to justify the cruel existence we live in. Hopefully some rational people reading this that have their parents/community trying to indoctrinate them into their cult can understand that if the Christian god does exist, they are either terribly cruel or have no love for humanity.

God does not kill. God is Life.
We are the ones who introduced His antithesis.
We are the ones who kill, and then blame it on Him.

Sometimes we want "better" only for ourselves, and we blame our problems on our Creator, instead of on his creation which has contrived them...against His will...and against His Modus Operandi...and against His Nature...which is perfect Love.

When faced with this, sometimes we work at bringing ourselves more in line with His will.

Sometimes, instead of dealing with the "why" behind our existence within this context...and discovering that it's to express and experience a perfect amount of Love...

...we put all of our energy into disavowing the existence of the "why"...

...at the cost of, and instead of, putting all of our energy into loving behaviour.

It's plain and simple.

If there is something that you truly don't like, Gary, by definition, it's ungodly.
Everything that you truly want, is Him.

There is no way around it.

Just consider if an alcoholic truly wants another bottle, or if they truly want 10 years sober.

It's easy to distinguish the truth of who we really are and what we're really here to do, vs. what our lying mouth has to say about things.

Ultimately, Gary, God is Love and the opposite of love is selfishness.

It's the reason why selfishness is the key ingredient and influence behind all unloving misbehaviour.
There is no way around it.

Complaining about selfish misbehaviour, is to request God's presence.
There is no way around it.

@Sleepy_Gary said in #68: > Murdering entire populations and making parasites that eat eyeballs for the “sins” of a few people is horribly cruel. > > I’m obviously not going to change your mind, because religious people always pull out some BS to justify the cruel existence we live in. Hopefully some rational people reading this that have their parents/community trying to indoctrinate them into their cult can understand that if the Christian god does exist, they are either terribly cruel or have no love for humanity. God does not kill. God is Life. We are the ones who introduced His antithesis. We are the ones who kill, and then blame it on Him. Sometimes we want "better" only for ourselves, and we blame our problems on our Creator, instead of on his creation which has contrived them...against His will...and against His Modus Operandi...and against His Nature...which is perfect Love. When faced with this, sometimes we work at bringing ourselves more in line with His will. Sometimes, instead of dealing with the "why" behind our existence within this context...and discovering that it's to express and experience a perfect amount of Love... ...we put all of our energy into disavowing the existence of the "why"... ...at the cost of, and instead of, putting all of our energy into loving behaviour. It's plain and simple. If there is something that you truly don't like, Gary, by definition, it's ungodly. Everything that you truly want, is Him. There is no way around it. Just consider if an alcoholic truly wants another bottle, or if they truly want 10 years sober. It's easy to distinguish the truth of who we really are and what we're really here to do, vs. what our lying mouth has to say about things. - Ultimately, Gary, God is Love and the opposite of love is selfishness. It's the reason why selfishness is the key ingredient and influence behind all unloving misbehaviour. There is no way around it. Complaining about selfish misbehaviour, is to request God's presence. There is no way around it.

@Resurrection_of_Abel said in #69:

God does not kill. God is Life.
We are the ones who introduced His antithesis.
We are the ones who kill, and then blame it on Him.

Sometimes we want "better" only for ourselves, and we blame our problems on our Creator, instead of on his creation which has contrived them...against His will...and against His Modus Operandi...and against His Nature...which is perfect Love.

When faced with this, sometimes we work at bringing ourselves more in line with His will.

Sometimes, instead of dealing with the "why" behind our existence within this context...and discovering that it's to express and experience a perfect amount of Love...

...we put all of our energy into disavowing the existence of the "why"...

...at the cost of, and instead of, putting all of our energy into loving behaviour.

It's plain and simple.

If there is something that you truly don't like, Gary, by definition, it's ungodly.
Everything that you truly want, is Him.

There is no way around it.

Just consider if an alcoholic truly wants another bottle, or if they truly want 10 years sober.

It's easy to distinguish the truth of who we really are and what we're really here to do, vs. what our lying mouth has to say about things.

God created everything and knows everything, so he created us knowing of the terrible cruelty that would ensue and yet still went ahead with it. Sounds pretty cruel to me.

@Resurrection_of_Abel said in #69: > God does not kill. God is Life. > We are the ones who introduced His antithesis. > We are the ones who kill, and then blame it on Him. > > Sometimes we want "better" only for ourselves, and we blame our problems on our Creator, instead of on his creation which has contrived them...against His will...and against His Modus Operandi...and against His Nature...which is perfect Love. > > When faced with this, sometimes we work at bringing ourselves more in line with His will. > > Sometimes, instead of dealing with the "why" behind our existence within this context...and discovering that it's to express and experience a perfect amount of Love... > > ...we put all of our energy into disavowing the existence of the "why"... > > ...at the cost of, and instead of, putting all of our energy into loving behaviour. > > It's plain and simple. > > If there is something that you truly don't like, Gary, by definition, it's ungodly. > Everything that you truly want, is Him. > > There is no way around it. > > Just consider if an alcoholic truly wants another bottle, or if they truly want 10 years sober. > > It's easy to distinguish the truth of who we really are and what we're really here to do, vs. what our lying mouth has to say about things. God created everything and knows everything, so he created us knowing of the terrible cruelty that would ensue and yet still went ahead with it. Sounds pretty cruel to me.

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.