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if christian god existed, would he be a cruel god?

@ALucasM said in #90:

Since I know you won't care if I explain the flaw in your argument, I think it is pointless to respond.

Because the "flaw in my argument" is based on some crazy religious BS and not actual logic or reason. What i've taken away from this friendly conversation is something that's been clear to me for a long time: religious people can always justify their insanity, because it's not grounded in logic. When you believe something that is not falsifiable, you can always pull out some BS excuse to justify whatever you want.

@ALucasM said in #90: > Since I know you won't care if I explain the flaw in your argument, I think it is pointless to respond. Because the "flaw in my argument" is based on some crazy religious BS and not actual logic or reason. What i've taken away from this friendly conversation is something that's been clear to me for a long time: religious people can always justify their insanity, because it's not grounded in logic. When you believe something that is not falsifiable, you can always pull out some BS excuse to justify whatever you want.

@ALucasM said in #79:

@Resurrection_of_Abel May I ask how long you've been Christian?

I do not call myself a Christian as I was never instructed to do so.

I don't understand how calling oneself "a Christian" is helpful, but I can see many different ways that it is confusing and adds to our problems.

Also, out of overwhelming humility and respect, I simply wouldn't dare.

I was instructed to love my neighbour, to repent and discontinue my unloving selfishness, and to be submerged in His name.

When people ask me what church I belong to, I tell them that my church is "The Church" and that there is only One.

To me, these ideas make perfect sense.

Honestly, the symbolism behind baptism has me a bit confused, but since He did it when He visited, I figured it would make good sense to follow His lead.

Also, 'being submerged' is an interesting metaphor of what occurs when we discontinues our unloving selfishness.

Turning from sin could easily be explained in metaphor as 'a lying mouth being suffocated and starved, while one holds it under'.

I don't see how I'm here to do anything except take onus for this debacle, mockery, and abuse of life that we have going on out here.

I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to make sure that it never occurs again.

I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to 'never was' ungodliness.

@ALucasM said in #79: > @Resurrection_of_Abel May I ask how long you've been Christian? I do not call myself a Christian as I was never instructed to do so. I don't understand how calling oneself "a Christian" is helpful, but I can see many different ways that it is confusing and adds to our problems. Also, out of overwhelming humility and respect, I simply wouldn't dare. - I was instructed to love my neighbour, to repent and discontinue my unloving selfishness, and to be submerged in His name. When people ask me what church I belong to, I tell them that my church is "The Church" and that there is only One. To me, these ideas make perfect sense. Honestly, the symbolism behind baptism has me a bit confused, but since He did it when He visited, I figured it would make good sense to follow His lead. Also, 'being submerged' is an interesting metaphor of what occurs when we discontinues our unloving selfishness. Turning from sin could easily be explained in metaphor as 'a lying mouth being suffocated and starved, while one holds it under'. - I don't see how I'm here to do anything except take onus for this debacle, mockery, and abuse of life that we have going on out here. I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to make sure that it never occurs again. I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to 'never was' ungodliness.

@Sleepy_Gary said in #91:

Because the "flaw in my argument" is based on some crazy religious BS and not actual logic or reason. What i've taken away from this friendly conversation is something that's been clear to me for a long time: religious people can always justify their insanity, because it's not grounded in logic. When you believe something that is not falsifiable, you can always pull out some BS excuse to justify whatever you want.

It's MY turn to thank YOU for the laugh

@Sleepy_Gary said in #91: > Because the "flaw in my argument" is based on some crazy religious BS and not actual logic or reason. What i've taken away from this friendly conversation is something that's been clear to me for a long time: religious people can always justify their insanity, because it's not grounded in logic. When you believe something that is not falsifiable, you can always pull out some BS excuse to justify whatever you want. It's MY turn to thank YOU for the laugh

@Amaloco said in #14:

Words, human-made concepts, like "Christian" "God" or "cruel", are great for buying bread at the bakery, but have no relevance or connection to anything mystical. The human need to understand (and control) everything is a sickness of blindness and immaturity.

A more plain answer; I believe nature / existence as a whole is like a relatively controlled chaos, both creative and destructive. Ebb and flow. Is it cruel when a star ends its life cycle? When a puppy gets run over by a truck? Both cases happen, adding whatever adjective to it doesn't change the happening. It's just what is.

To believe that giving people what they want is "truly fair" completely misses the nature of nature itself. Some people want to create, some want to destroy, and everything in between. I was raised with the belief that life / God gives you what you can handle, if we're gonna simplify the un-simplifiable, that kinda resembles fairness to me.

I kinda think it is good extension for my point. it creates for you, uncontrolled chaos with you have to deal with. And you're shaped in those random environments. That's why it is unfair to be jugded by a god, it is just pure randomness and environment with we have little control

@Amaloco said in #14: > Words, human-made concepts, like "Christian" "God" or "cruel", are great for buying bread at the bakery, but have no relevance or connection to anything mystical. The human need to understand (and control) everything is a sickness of blindness and immaturity. > > A more plain answer; I believe nature / existence as a whole is like a relatively controlled chaos, both creative and destructive. Ebb and flow. Is it cruel when a star ends its life cycle? When a puppy gets run over by a truck? Both cases happen, adding whatever adjective to it doesn't change the happening. It's just what is. > > To believe that giving people what they want is "truly fair" completely misses the nature of nature itself. Some people want to create, some want to destroy, and everything in between. I was raised with the belief that life / God gives you what you can handle, if we're gonna simplify the un-simplifiable, that kinda resembles fairness to me. I kinda think it is good extension for my point. it creates for you, uncontrolled chaos with you have to deal with. And you're shaped in those random environments. That's why it is unfair to be jugded by a god, it is just pure randomness and environment with we have little control

@Resurrection_of_Abel said in #92:

I do not call myself a Christian as I was never instructed to do so.

I don't understand how calling oneself "a Christian" is helpful, but I can see many different ways that it is confusing and adds to our problems.

Also, out of overwhelming humility and respect, I simply wouldn't dare.

I was instructed to love my neighbour, to repent and discontinue my unloving selfishness, and to be submerged in His name.

When people ask me what church I belong to, I tell them that my church is "The Church" and that there is only One.

To me, these ideas make perfect sense.

Honestly, the symbolism behind baptism has me a bit confused, but since He did it when He visited, I figured it would make good sense to follow His lead.

Also, 'being submerged' is an interesting metaphor of what occurs when we discontinues our unloving selfishness.

Turning from sin could easily be explained in metaphor as 'a lying mouth being suffocated and starved, while one holds it under'.

I don't see how I'm here to do anything except take onus for this debacle, mockery, and abuse of life that we have going on out here.

I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to make sure that it never occurs again.

I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to 'never was' ungodliness.

This is the answer I hoped to hear. I once heard someone say that he doesn't call himself a Christian because millions of people call themselves 'Christians' but do unspeakably evil things. And what you said about the Church is completely Biblical. I wish you the best.

@Resurrection_of_Abel said in #92: > I do not call myself a Christian as I was never instructed to do so. > > I don't understand how calling oneself "a Christian" is helpful, but I can see many different ways that it is confusing and adds to our problems. > > Also, out of overwhelming humility and respect, I simply wouldn't dare. > > - > > I was instructed to love my neighbour, to repent and discontinue my unloving selfishness, and to be submerged in His name. > > When people ask me what church I belong to, I tell them that my church is "The Church" and that there is only One. > > To me, these ideas make perfect sense. > > Honestly, the symbolism behind baptism has me a bit confused, but since He did it when He visited, I figured it would make good sense to follow His lead. > > Also, 'being submerged' is an interesting metaphor of what occurs when we discontinues our unloving selfishness. > > Turning from sin could easily be explained in metaphor as 'a lying mouth being suffocated and starved, while one holds it under'. > > - > > I don't see how I'm here to do anything except take onus for this debacle, mockery, and abuse of life that we have going on out here. > > I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to make sure that it never occurs again. > > I don't see how I'm here to do anything except to 'never was' ungodliness. This is the answer I hoped to hear. I once heard someone say that he doesn't call himself a Christian because millions of people call themselves 'Christians' but do unspeakably evil things. And what you said about the Church is completely Biblical. I wish you the best.

@Toscani said in #39:

Do you believe that questioning God's nature is blasphemous, or is it a necessary part of faith? How do you reconcile the existence of suffering with the idea of a loving God?

Well for institution, obviously yes. But for god would that matter? Why he would punish you, just because you think in not correct way? That sounds like school hehehehe. We are born in chaotic random environment, god cannot judge fairly. I think faith is optional, god could understand that you had no solid reasons to believe in him or you thought wrongly.
How do you reconcile the existence of suffering with the idea of a loving God?

Hmmm I think god just let choose that life, and that's him's love. Because he allowed to expirence what we wanted after all he could not give a existence in this world

@Toscani said in #39: > Do you believe that questioning God's nature is blasphemous, or is it a necessary part of faith? How do you reconcile the existence of suffering with the idea of a loving God? Well for institution, obviously yes. But for god would that matter? Why he would punish you, just because you think in not correct way? That sounds like school hehehehe. We are born in chaotic random environment, god cannot judge fairly. I think faith is optional, god could understand that you had no solid reasons to believe in him or you thought wrongly. How do you reconcile the existence of suffering with the idea of a loving God? Hmmm I think god just let choose that life, and that's him's love. Because he allowed to expirence what we wanted after all he could not give a existence in this world

@Sleepy_Gary said in #82:

...kill and torture their entire bloodline forevermore. If that god does exist, he's a sick SOB.

@Starij_Ded said in #72:

I will not discuss God and his measure of justice, and a few volumes will not suffice. Read the Bible. There, the so-called mercy of God in all its glory. As he called for the destruction of entire nations and did not spare babies...

I addressed all of this, thoroughly, and without ambiguity, belief, or confusion.

Right now, you can choose to take the word of the writers of the old testament regarding attributes of God, or you can choose to take mine.

They did their best, but they thoroughly slandered Him through confused projections of themselves.

God is Love, Life, Truth, Innocence.

He's got nothing to do with death, at all. Period. Full stop.

There is no death in heaven. Period. Full stop.

Anything that involves death, involves a LACK of God.

If you have a problem with nations being wiped out, and babies being killed...my guy...then you need to realize and understand that these are UNLOVING instances that can only be carried out by people who are REFUSING TO LOVE their neighbours, in favour of being upset, spiteful, and choosing to kill their neighbours, instead.

They are reflecting a LACK of God.
They are not reflecting God!

They are practicing selfishness, which is the opposite of love!

All you are ACTUALLY saying is:

"We need only God and His will be done, everywhere, all of the time, and without any exception."

That's all that you've actually said, here.
That's, literally, the only meaning behind what you've communicated.

God did NOT tell Moses to kill the Canaanites one day (as Moses would have us believe), and then tell us to forgive our enemies and to love our neighbours the next!

God told us to ALWAYS love our one another, and to ALWAYS forgive our enemies.

This is His instruction to us because (perfect) LOVE IS THE ONLY THING THAT ACTUALLY WORKS!

We can't keep pointing at the people we've killed...or any other unloving/ungodly/selfishness that we've effected...against the advice and commandment of our God in Heaven...and then blame Him for it.

Nobody is fooled, here.
We're not fooling ourselves, and we're certainly not fooling God.

Nor is this conversation any less than 14 billion years old.

As you've testified to, yourself, all of this unloving ungodly misbehaviour is completely old and boring by now!

God is everything that we want and need.

Anything but, is the opposite of that...and 'anything but God' is the cause of everything...in total...that we complain about and have unnecessary problems with.

This is the rigid fact of our reality within this universal locale.
There is no way around it.

If it's not Love, then it's total garbage and without exception.

@Sleepy_Gary said in #82: > ...kill and torture their entire bloodline forevermore. If that god does exist, he's a sick SOB. @Starij_Ded said in #72: > I will not discuss God and his measure of justice, and a few volumes will not suffice. Read the Bible. There, the so-called mercy of God in all its glory. As he called for the destruction of entire nations and did not spare babies... I addressed all of this, thoroughly, and without ambiguity, belief, or confusion. Right now, you can choose to take the word of the writers of the old testament regarding attributes of God, or you can choose to take mine. They did their best, but they thoroughly slandered Him through confused projections of themselves. God is Love, Life, Truth, Innocence. He's got nothing to do with death, at all. Period. Full stop. There is no death in heaven. Period. Full stop. Anything that involves death, involves a LACK of God. If you have a problem with nations being wiped out, and babies being killed...my guy...then you need to realize and understand that these are UNLOVING instances that can only be carried out by people who are REFUSING TO LOVE their neighbours, in favour of being upset, spiteful, and choosing to kill their neighbours, instead. They are reflecting a LACK of God. They are not reflecting God! They are practicing selfishness, which is the opposite of love! All you are ACTUALLY saying is: "We need only God and His will be done, everywhere, all of the time, and without any exception." That's all that you've actually said, here. That's, literally, the only meaning behind what you've communicated. - God did NOT tell Moses to kill the Canaanites one day (as Moses would have us believe), and then tell us to forgive our enemies and to love our neighbours the next! God told us to ALWAYS love our one another, and to ALWAYS forgive our enemies. This is His instruction to us because (perfect) LOVE IS THE ONLY THING THAT ACTUALLY WORKS! - We can't keep pointing at the people we've killed...or any other unloving/ungodly/selfishness that we've effected...against the advice and commandment of our God in Heaven...and then blame Him for it. Nobody is fooled, here. We're not fooling ourselves, and we're certainly not fooling God. Nor is this conversation any less than 14 billion years old. As you've testified to, yourself, all of this unloving ungodly misbehaviour is completely old and boring by now! - God is everything that we want and need. Anything but, is the opposite of that...and 'anything but God' is the cause of everything...in total...that we complain about and have unnecessary problems with. This is the rigid fact of our reality within this universal locale. There is no way around it. If it's not Love, then it's total garbage and without exception.

@Oportunist said in #38:

Thats because other people dont help them.Its not God,We are responsible for that.
I quite disagree, it is just world how it is constructed, we need to kill things to survive. When plants are alive. If god wanted to remove hunger he could easily, just eat rooks bro

@Oportunist said in #38: > Thats because other people dont help them.Its not God,We are responsible for that. I quite disagree, it is just world how it is constructed, we need to kill things to survive. When plants are alive. If god wanted to remove hunger he could easily, just eat rooks bro

@xDoubledragon said in #98:

I quite disagree, it is just world how it is constructed, we need to kill things to survive. When plants are alive. If god wanted to remove hunger he could easily, just eat rooks bro

This is a very good point.

I'm curious which you think came first?

Was this universal locale in existence before the human spirit?
Or did the human spirit exist before this universal locale?

I understand that it's a convenient and easy alibi, for our unloving and selfish misbehaviour, to take the state of the "natural affairs" within this locale and to scapegoat them for our misbehaviour...

...however...

...if this universe is reflecting the human spirit, instead of the other way around...

...then our alibi turns into both eyewitness testimony and DNA evidence which indict us.

Further, the existence of recovering alcoholics, or sons who've broken the abusive cycles set forth by their abusive fathers, in addition, serve to perforate this convenient scapegoat that we've depended on for so long.

@xDoubledragon said in #98: > I quite disagree, it is just world how it is constructed, we need to kill things to survive. When plants are alive. If god wanted to remove hunger he could easily, just eat rooks bro This is a very good point. I'm curious which you think came first? Was this universal locale in existence before the human spirit? Or did the human spirit exist before this universal locale? I understand that it's a convenient and easy alibi, for our unloving and selfish misbehaviour, to take the state of the "natural affairs" within this locale and to scapegoat them for our misbehaviour... ...however... ...if this universe is reflecting the human spirit, instead of the other way around... ...then our alibi turns into both eyewitness testimony and DNA evidence which indict us. - Further, the existence of recovering alcoholics, or sons who've broken the abusive cycles set forth by their abusive fathers, in addition, serve to perforate this convenient scapegoat that we've depended on for so long.

@ALucasM said in #95:

This is the answer I hoped to hear. I once heard someone say that he doesn't call himself a Christian because millions of people call themselves 'Christians' but do unspeakably evil things. And what you said about the Church is completely Biblical. I wish you the best.

Likewise, I wish you all the best, as well!

@ALucasM said in #95: > This is the answer I hoped to hear. I once heard someone say that he doesn't call himself a Christian because millions of people call themselves 'Christians' but do unspeakably evil things. And what you said about the Church is completely Biblical. I wish you the best. Likewise, I wish you all the best, as well!

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